Traditional Kung FU

[clfsean]

what i was getting at is that wing chun is a striking system with no locks, adding the chin na from eagle claw would be good to start on the path to becoming a rounded fighter. sorry i was un clear on this.

Actually Wing Chun has tons of kum na in it. There's no reason to round it off if you have a good teacher at your disposal.

In addition to the fact that Ying Jow & Wing Chun are at the opposite end of the spectrum for their outlook on application & use of MA, it's not really a viable mix.

Try again...

[tenzen]

i was refering to joint locks. true wing chun has no joint locks it is stricktly a striking system, there are no grabs only presses. so adding ying jow will help compliment the system to help start you on all ranges of fighting. yes they are all good by themselves but in real life you gotta be able to do it all. like forest said you never know what your gonna get. it is best to have tools to deal with it all.

[clfsean]

i was refering to joint locks. true wing chun has no joint locks it is stricktly a striking system, there are no grabs only presses. so adding ying jow will help compliment the system to help start you on all ranges of fighting. yes they are all good by themselves but in real life you gotta be able to do it all. like forest said you never know what your gonna get. it is best to have tools to deal with it all.

Dude... there's not a solitary "striking" system found anywhere. Everything at some point grabs, controls, moves, throws, locks, etc...

Wing Chun has plenty of kum na sitting in broad view. I see it & I don't even play it. Ying Jow is a detriment to Wing Chun & vice versa. You can't just put two things together & expect them to work when they are light years apart in almost every aspect except one... hitting.

"All the tools" to deal with anything is thoroughly understanding what it is you do & then testing it to make sure you do understand it. If you don't then you get tooled & should go back & re-examine what it is you do. If you do then you move along confident in your abilities. You don't play other peoples game, you make them play yours. Then you understand what it is your trying to do. Otherwise, you're fodder.

[tenzen]

true wing chun has no grappling in it whatsoever that goes against all the principles of wingchun. only a hybrid has grappling and then is no longer wing chun. i understand that they are worlds apart and they would go well together as muay thai and jujutsu are worlds apart and they work very well together. bottom line fighting is fighting and all that fancy shit goes out the window when it is time to get down.

[clfsean]

true wing chun has no grappling in it whatsoever that goes against all the principles of wingchun. only a hybrid has grappling and then is no longer wing chun. i understand that they are worlds apart and they would go well together as muay thai and jujutsu are worlds apart and they work very well together. bottom line fighting is fighting and all that fancy shit goes out the window when it is time to get down.

Who said anything about grappling?? I said kum na, which is more than "grappling" & isn't wrestling. It's inherent in all TCMA.

Why don't you provide us a definition & example of "true wing chun" & "hybrid wing chun"?

[tenzen]

wong leung sheung( my moms sifu) and emin bozetepe. both wing chun wong more traditional emin not traditional. there is no grappling or grabbing in wingchun all holds are presses there are no grippin tech whatsoever. they slow you down. and since the power of the system comes from the rapid strikes to pressure points this makes perfect sense.
i realize everyone has there own way and should make their art their own not a carbon copy but yip man never taught any grappling.

[clfsean]

Where did I say "grappling"? Seriously... show me where I said grappling.

[tenzen]

you didn't i did. i was originally replying to the thread starter on what we think is the most effective and traditional. so my opinion does hold weight here. and as for facts there is no supreme style its what you do with what you got. i was just stating that if one wanted to be well rounded in the chinese arts and effective, you should try blending wc with ying jow thats all. the original starter probably don't even read this thread anymore since the question he asked has gone out the window and we are debating wing chun. and yes it is the most effective chinese system. and don't try to pull sanda out of your ass cuz it is a lame rip off of muay thai.

[clfsean]

You say in other threads you practice 6 or 7 known forms of ninjutsu....
You say in this thread Wing Chun is the best CMA out...
You say there's nothing in Wing Chun that compares to kum na...
You say to be well rounded you have to combine the best (WC) with Ying Jow...
You say Sanda can't be used as comparison since it's a lame rip off of Muay Thai...

Exactly... what do you say??

For the record I don't practice sanda... sanda is a part of what I do. Look at the screen name & you can figure it out.

[tenzen]

never said the ninjutsu i practice is well known. in my opinion the best cma out is wing chun. there is comparison to kum na but is no actual techniques classified as kum na. did not say you have to mix them to be a well rounded fighter only it would be a good idea if you wanted to stick strictly to chinese martial arts. and as far as the sanda i was refering to it not being a traditional chinese art, as in they had to pick it up cuz they could not defeat the thais. i was just offering my opinion to the thread starter, perhaps i should make myself clearer next time. sorry for the misunderstanding and all i was just trying to be helpful. and so what is it u practice?

[csc]

and as far as the sanda i was refering to it not being a traditional chinese art,

Sanda is an art that integrate kick, punch, lock, and throw. If your CMA system has all those building block, you can teach a Sanda team and that will be 100% CMA. If your CMA style doesnot have enough building block, you can always cross train other CMA styles and fill in those missing elements.

Let's examine all the major building block used in Sanda:

- jab, hook, upper cut (exist in LF and PM).
- front kick, side kick, round house kick (exist in LF).
- head lock, shoulder lock, elbow lock (exist in SC and eagle craw),
- single/double legs, leg hook, hip throw, under hook, over hook, ... (exist in SC).
- knee strike (exist in SC).
- elbow strike (exist in LF).

So why people keep saying that Sanda or Sanshou is not CMA? Do you truly have to train boxing, MT, TKD, wrestling, Judo in order to be effective in Sanda? Can you cross train Taiji, XingYi, Bagua, LF, PM, Baiji, WC. SC, ... and be a effective Sanda coach?

[kingoftheforest]

If your CMA style doesnot have enough building block, you can always cross train other CMA styles and fill in those missing elements.

If your CMA style doesn't incorporate all these things it's not being taught properly, since traditional CMA's were taught that each move can be a strike a lock or a throw if properly executed.

[jubaji]

If your CMA style doesn't incorporate all these things it's not being taught properly.

Who is that great martial artists who once said "I guess knowing how to use a hammer real well is better than being a putz with all the expensive equipment."?

???

[csc]

It's not realistic to expect a

- boxer to execute effective hip throw,
- wrestler to execute effective round house kick, or
- CMA guy to execute effective ground fight.

There is nothing wrong to admit that there exist no "complete" style on this planet. This is the beauty of the "cross trainning - mine is mine and yours is also mine".

[kingoftheforest]

It's not realistic to expect a

- boxer to execute effective hip throw,
- wrestler to execute effective round house kick, or
- CMA guy to execute effective ground fight.

There is nothing wrong to admit that there exist no "complete" style on this planet. This is the beauty of the "cross trainning - mine is mine and yours is also mine".

I agree cross training is a good idea.

I fail to recognize where it was stated that CMA's are a complete style style and better than anything else?