Abir Warrior Arts

[jubaji]

Still and always a wrestler. That occupies the majority of my training time. I dabble with some other stuff and devote one day a week to Eishin Ryu Iaido.


Enjoy the judo, I think you'll like it.

[Da Pope]

Arnis and recently started Niten Ichi Ryu.

Given up on Wing Chun for the moment.

Oh yeah and I'm starting Judo next week.........wooooooohooooooooooooo

What about you Unk? You were really into wrestling werent you? What other MAs?

[jubaji]

What exactly do you train, Wingnut?

[Da Pope]

Agreed but I would rather have sword cover and try and avoid rather than just try and avoid, I'm just not that quick.

His fast swinging is more to do with him using a wushu flexi-sword than him having good technique isnt it?

I practice daily with 1 kg (about 2lbs) carbon steel live blades and can get a bit of speed up with controlled strikes. I can get faster but with much less control. That sword he is using probably wieghs about 1 lbs? Its not difficult to get the speed he has with that sort of wieght especially if your not concerned about control. Try it!

[kingoftheforest]

No would you?

And secondly that sword he uses wouldnt last the first couple of strikes against something made out of proper sword steel!!!!!!

No I wouldn't.


The object behind good sword fighting is that you don't clash swords, you avoid the other guys and strike him.

Clashing swords is a huge no no in actual good sword fighting.

Notice I said good not TV.

[Da Pope]

Would you try and punch him in the face while he was doing that with the sword in his hand?

Not being sarcastic just seriously curious.


Also could you do movement that fast with a live blade and not cut yourself.

No would you?

And secondly that sword he uses wouldnt last the first couple of strikes against something made out of proper sword steel!!!!!!

[TTEscrima]

You post up posts from other sites, claim that Im selling herbal formulas I received from Dr. Painter, and go on and on without once posting up website, contact, or martial arts school information about yourselves.

.

Dale I was confused by the wording of your add, If you didn't receive the formulas from Painter, fine, my misunderstanding, I apologize. Seeing them under the banner of his style along with the statement they were manufactured by you, left me under a misconception, I apologize.

As for you and your skills, they may well be awesome, Painter has skills as well, just not what I have ever seen from any other Baqua lineage's Master.

That's secondary to the titles, uniforms and most importantly the videos of him moving people without touching them. You posted those videos, I asked you about it and you responded by challenging me, you've never addressed any of the questions I asked. I asked you about lineage, his titles etc. You never once offered an answer, always a challenge to fight as though that validated his videos of moving people without touching them as part of Baqua.

I posted the links to show I'm far from the only one asking these questions after visiting the Gompa over the years or buying his videos and getting a guy in military uniform and Beret introducing himself as Capt Painter.

I've never met you, and I'm really not interested, (unless you can show me how to move people by waving your hands in the air with no contact). Nor do I have the time to to continue debating the issue with you... you believe in and like what you're doing so enjoy it.

I've been planning a trip for years, I'm finally retired and in a position to travel, so as the song goes...I'm leaving on a jet plane...don't know when I'll be back again...

I don't like to jinx things so I keep them to myself until they come to pass, well it's here. I'm headed back to some of my favorite places I visited in the Navy Island hopping until I hit the one that feels like home...that means you've read my last post. I'm sure you'll be filled with joy, as I am that I'm on the road again.


With that, Tom, Tant, its been fun.

[kingoftheforest]

It seems we have two cowardly individuals here who feel the need to slander and libel both me and my teacher.

You both hide behind the internet and snipe at people, rather than step up and be adults about this.

You post up posts from other sites, claim that Im selling herbal formulas I received from Dr. Painter, and go on and on without once posting up website, contact, or martial arts school information about yourselves.

It seems between the two of you, you do not have once ounce of spine, testicular fortitude, nor plain old guts to publically state who you are while you slander and libel others.

I find that rather pathetic.

KOTF has never met my teacher yet takes other peoples word that he is what they say they are. KOTF you are a poor excuse of an intelligent human in doing so.

Keep hiding gentlemen. Or you can post up where you teach, live, and let people come to you and see if you can actually cash all these checks your mouths are writing.

I make myself known, as well as accountable for my actions on the internet. I sign my posts with my real name and contact information. That is what a real man does.

Good luck with life, gentlemen, the two of you are seriously go to need it.

Just what I expected and predicted.

No proof that these things aren't true.

Just more actual slander, as well as ignornace.

I'm unintelligent, yet you show yours clearly by stating that WE are cowards.


Just a quick FYI. Several people from the site have come and trained with us.

Even LEO's and military, as well as internet security groups tell you:


Don't use your real name on the internet.


It was nice educating you Dale, and watching you prove me right.

Since you refuse to show proof that TTE was wrong.

And only you seem to be making false allegations about people, and avoid answering the real substantial questions, and scream lawsuit like it's some protective barrier, I have no further time for you.

You were offered a simple way to take the high road and yet you show you have no taste for decorum or clearing up this "slander".

Have a good life with your anger and hate and disillusion.


I'm done "discussing" anything with you Dale.

Continue to avoid answering the legitimate questions asked of you, and just keep calling names.

KOTF

[DaleDugas]

It seems we have two cowardly individuals here who feel the need to slander and libel both me and my teacher.

You both hide behind the internet and snipe at people, rather than step up and be adults about this.

You post up posts from other sites, claim that Im selling herbal formulas I received from Dr. Painter, and go on and on without once posting up website, contact, or martial arts school information about yourselves.

It seems between the two of you, you do not have once ounce of spine, testicular fortitude, nor plain old guts to publically state who you are while you slander and libel others.

I find that rather pathetic.

KOTF has never met my teacher yet takes other peoples word that he is what they say they are. KOTF you are a poor excuse of an intelligent human in doing so.

Keep hiding gentlemen. Or you can post up where you teach, live, and let people come to you and see if you can actually cash all these checks your mouths are writing.

I make myself known, as well as accountable for my actions on the internet. I sign my posts with my real name and contact information. That is what a real man does.

Good luck with life, gentlemen, the two of you are seriously go to need it.

[TTEscrima]

If this guy wasn't so obvious/hilarious, I imagine his Bullshido thread would have gotten more serious attention.

You mean like the attention John Painter got on Bullshido?



Bagua bodyguard, stuntman, cop etc. Dr John Painter PhD, ND

Bagua bodyguard, stuntman, cop etc. Dr John Painter PhD, ND - No BS MMA and Martial Arts


I'm tired of the subject so I'm done but in closure, No one cares if Painter or his students can fight...the objection is to calling it Baqua when there is no traceable lineage or record of his style before Painter, the objection is to his moving people without touching them and calling it Baqua, the objection is to the titles and uniforms used to market himself, the whole package reflects badly on Baqua and the CMA's in general.

[kingoftheforest]

I was happy to avoid your beef adn TTE's Dale. I said once before I was done butting heads with you.

You obviously don't understand simple rules of any martial Art.

Try to limit your enemies numbers.

You also make claims to people about hiding behind the web. I got vids on youtube too buddy. I posted them on here too.

That's pretty public.

However you make claims to "floor" people you have never seen or met.

Charging in head long without sizing up your opponent.

You yell "slander", and "liable"!. Which is mostly a scarecrow in a cornfield.

TTE has posted hard evidence to what he is calling bullshit on.

Can you provide evidence to the contrary? It shouldn't be hard.

Or are we playing the "I'm too good for that, waste of my time card."?


I can't buy that if so, from some one who argues vehemently, but only with accusations and no explanations.

If you can't prove what TTE is saying is false then you have learned some simple MA techniques.

1. Pounding your fists on things.

2. Yelling.

I'm asking for proof TTE is wrong quite civilly, so I hope your response isn't full of "keyboard heroes", and tiny ego accusations.

I don't feel what I am asking is outrageous considering it should be fairly simple, if what TTE claims isn't true.

[TTEscrima]

HEHEHE I was neither wrong, mistaken nor lying.

Master Brewer in his sigline...he removed it here, your guess is as good as mine why.



Group: The Tao Bums
Posts: 9
Joined: 15-December 07
From: Quincy, MA
Member No.: 6,954




Let me know if you have any questions.

There are other people who teach Jiulong Baguazhang in Colorado.


--------------------
Be well, train hard

Dale Dugas
Jiulong Baguazhang Instructor
Dit Da Jow Master Brewer

Boston Baguazhang
CDIA Supplies

PO Box 35
Quincy, MA
02171-0001

617-595-8097

I am starting Baguazhang classes on Thursday | The Tao Bums - Taoist Discussion Forum for Taoism, Tai Chi, Chi Kung (Qigong) and more

[TTEscrima]

These letters from John Painter posted here: John Painter - Page 8 - Kung Fu Magazine Forums

..................................................................

Here he claims the right the PH.D title "Ph.D. or Dr. title:
I studied Naturopathy and earned my Ph.D. based on a focus of Chinese medicine most notably Acupuncture. My teacher in Acupuncture was Dr. Sun, Lung-pao who was formerly in Hong Kong about 28 years ago. Like it or not the diploma hangs on my wall and I have a legitimate right to use the prefix of Dr. or suffix of Ph.D. on my name."

Correct me if I'm wrong, Acupuncturist are known as D.O.M.s and those who practice Naturopathy are called ND's, not Dr's.

The rest speaks for itself, especially this part: "Yes I use titles in many of my articles and photos. Marketing is the way things are sold. You can r be a dirt poor Bagua teacher who following old traditional ways and hopes student will find you or you can promote yourself. That is how things are done in the USA"

And this: "Yes, I have at times been a bit flamboyant with the marketing I admit that but hey, I have not tried to be blatantly dishonest. I have had some really bad advice from some people handling my marketing and the promotion of my art. It has resulted in some of the flack I am taking on this forum now."

And finally this: "I am not claiming to have studied Baguazhang in China from any famous teachers, masters or to be doing any of the more prevalent styles. I am doing my style my own methods derived form the teachings of one man. I do not know where he got it for sure. I do not care."

Add all that to the videos you posted of him moving people without touching them and here we are.



...........................................................................
John Painter Listens & Answers 1
Dear Friends and Enemies

In the spirit of good will I have edited my original post to remove what some of you found objectionable while leaving the pertinent information.

What an interesting and long-winded discussion this is on my validity as an instructor of Baguazhang. What I can do is give you some facts and you can then make up your own mind. We live in a free country and a free society and I am unlike many of you a professional teacher. I make my living, feed my family and pay my debts from the income made from teaching Baguazhang. So when you attack me you attack my business.

I cannot do anything about that. I can only be as honest and fair as possible and let you make your own decisions. You can then choose to ignore me, curse me, join my school or do whatever. You can shop at any store you choose and you can choose any teacher you want. In the long run it will not change the fact that we have nine schools located around the world teaching this art. Schools that for the most part are staffed by martial art instructors who have at least eight to ten year's experience in other internal styles before switching to the Jiulong Baguazhang system.

I had a teacher he told me his name was Li. He taught me to do many wonderful things he called Chinese methods of defense and health. That is the majority and reality of it. Could he have been named Chang, Yang, Jing or some other name and lied to me yes I suppose so. I really do not care if his name was Rumple Stilkin what he showed me when I was a boy for a number of years changed me and healed me and what I have spent a lifetime working on works.

Li, Longdao was a real man any history is what he told me. I am not a historian and in fact until recently I did not care about any of that or think it was important. I had the methods and I worked with them for years and over time they began to become more and more my own personal way while still remaining true to the Baguazhang core principles.

Talking to the students we have had in the past and the present most of them say they do not care anything about the past history they look at the methods, they train the methods and the methods work for them that is all they or I care about.

I am not claiming to have studied Baguazhang in China from any famous teachers, masters or to be doing any of the more prevalent styles. I am doing my style my own methods derived form the teachings of one man. I do not know where he got it for sure. I do not care.

I know that after observing almost all of the various methods of Baguazhang available and meeting with many well-known teachers over the years that all of the components by which Baguazhang is judged are present in our system. The energies, the methods and the training were part and parcel of the Baguazhang I was taught by my one and only instructor.

So I have every right to call what we do Baguazhang. By using the Name Jiulong Baguazhang or Li family Baguazhang I would hope that it is set apart from the others so there is no mistake that it is a “family style” not of the main stream and not attempting to claim any lineage to anyone other than my original teacher.

We never attempt to hide any truth or knowledge of other methods from our students. I always say this is my way there are many others please feel free to check them out if you like and choose what you like best.

To think that students remain with a teacher because of his link (lineage) to the past is ludicrous. People in the modern world go and do things that make them feel good about themselves and where they are continuously being given interesting, challenging and workable information. This is the real litmus test of a method. It is a free world and a free market and one can look at all the Bagua teachers around and make a free choice.

At my school we seek a free exchange of ideas with everyone. Unlike some we do not restrict our students from investigating other methods and systems. We encourage it! If I have the best interest of my students at heart then if they find something better, I want them to go and do that!

On these things about the history I have told what I was told and so I will not waver as I was there I know them to be the truth up to the person they came from and no matter what the opinions of others those facts remain the same. I am truly, deeply sorry if that offends some of you.

Fact:
Jiulong Baguazhang is a real system of health and martial training that has almost 4,000 students world wide with nine branch schools. It has been continuously taught to students for almost 30 years. Whatever it is or whatever you think it is or where it came from in the past does not change the fact that it is now a reality simply because it is here now and functioning.

I am truly, deeply sorry if some things I have published or said offended some of you. I seek friendships not enemies.


Next post has conclusion......
__________________
Thank you for your patience!
Last edited by John Painter; 02-01-2002 at 12:23 PM.


Bagua Rules Committee
I was asked to chair the committee on writing the rules for judging Baguazhang in international tournaments by the USAKWF and the AAU Kung Fu Association. Now why would they do that if I did not know anything about Baguazhang. I also brought together the first Baguazhang teacher's discussion forum in Houston Texas and later in Winchester Virginia for the express purpose of opening up knowledge of all styles to anyone interested. This was before the Internet was out of diapers. This was attended by a large number of famous teachers and their students and was judged to be most successful.

Mauser Pistols
Yes, the Chinese had .45 cal. ACP broom handle Mauser pistols with interchangeable barrel assemblies that could change the cartridge caliber from 7.63mm to 9mm by removing one pin and sliding on another assembly.

Fighting Knives
Yes the knives in the photos are the ones I choose to use because of their weight balance and size. Yes they can be purchased from a knife catalog. No they are not Chinese knives. They are similar to a design Mr. Li drew for me and I had some customs one's made. I used the ones in the photo, as they are the ones we use in the class we teach. Sorry if this seemed dishonest to some of you.

Yes the photo of me sitting in meditation in the garden is a composite done by the web designer to convey a sense of nature and tranquillity. (really!)

Titles:
Yes I use titles in many of my articles and photos. Marketing is the way things are sold. You can r be a dirt poor Bagua teacher who following old traditional ways and hopes student will find you or you can promote yourself. That is how things are done in the USA.

Biff:
My full name on my birth certificate is John P. (biff) Painter. I went by the nickname for many years until about the third year of college and then dropped it. I did write some articles under that name way back. It is no secret just a name only now used by family and friends.

Ph.D. or Dr. title:
I studied Naturopathy and earned my Ph.D. based on a focus of Chinese medicine most notably Acupuncture. My teacher in Acupuncture was Dr. Sun, Lung-pao who was formerly in Hong Kong about 28 years ago. Like it or not the diploma hangs on my wall and I have a legitimate right to use the prefix of Dr. or suffix of Ph.D. on my name.

Shifu:
I have never asked or expected anyone to call me Shifu or master. I do not think I am a master just someone who has learned a great deal with still more to learn and I am willing to share it with those who have a like interest. My students call me Shifu because I am their teacher that is all. This is a title that may be used by any teacher or one who accepts payment for exchange of knowledge. It does not necessarily denote the term master.




Captain:
The suffix Capt. Appears on most of my work with police and military martial training.
It is used in the ARMLET Company as a designation of skill level much as black-belt is used in Karate. Three are higher levels that this. Everyone is tested in these police skills by an impartial review board.

I am part owner of the company know as American Rangers Martial Law Enforcement Training Institute. I am not a police office or a Texas Ranger, as some people like to state. I have an honorary title of Honorary Texas Ranger bestowed on me by the former governor of Texas. I am also a fully active member of ASLET the American Society of Law Enforcement Trainers and Police Consultants Inc. a Dallas based company.

The company ARMLETI trains combat and military trainers for various agencies. We have one of our people in Israel and we recently have begun working with the Ohio Sheriffs office. You do not get these appointments and memberships by being a fraud!

Six Flags,
What is the big deal with that. Yes, I worked there for a number of year performing and training stunt men in the Western Action show and was featured in their Music Mill theatre with my Houdini escape show. So what....

Yes I was in the film Benji and also For the love of Benji. Look fast when you rent it for the guy shooting the cop as he breaks into the jewlery store. Or just read the credits. Again so what...

The Web Site.
I did the best I could to present to the Internet who we are and where we are. The entire web site was put together by a group out of Canada who helped me as a favor. Yes, I have at times been a bit flamboyant with the marketing I admit that but hey, I have not tried to be blatantly dishonest. I have had some really bad advice from some people handling my marketing and the promotion of my art. It has resulted in some of the flack I am taking on this forum now. I am taking some steps to remedy that and trying to follow my heart in the matter.

You are not asking me to be honest you are asking me to confirm what you already believe to be truth. So yes, the photos have been removed from the site. Not because I fear of some reprisal from certain members of this group but simply for the following reasons
1. They were offensive to some of you
2. They were copyrighted images and as such were not legal to copy and distribute.

This of course will not slow down the controversy. If there were no photos at all on the site some of you would do your best to find something else to point a finger at. At this point whatever I say I will be doomed if I do or doomed if I don't and some of you will **** me anyway. Those of you who have a real curiosity about the Jiulong Baguazhang system that I teach will be able to know by coming to visit me in an open spirit of inquiry and friendship. Attend a program or come as my guest to a workshop at The Gompa.

I do not judge others. I have no, religions or racial prejudices and no animosity towards anyone. In fact a few of you on this group know that I have offered to help you with writing articles and getting them published in national magazines.

Some of you also know that we here at The Gompa have openly promoted your schools and events to others. Yet, because of some discrepancy or suspicion in a photo all of that work is thrown into the toilet as if it never happened! I would hope you were not that shallow. Judge me but at least do it from a person to person perspective based on first person knowledge not based on hearsay. Judge me based on my skills and knowledge and my ability to impart it and it's benefit to others not on rumor.

Am I a liar and a fake? Well that is up to you to choose. You have placed me in a position in which I choose to neither confirm nor deny your allegations. After all what is the point if your mind is already made up. It could have been handled differently. I humbly apologize for any affront or insult any of you may have taken. I will continue doing my best to serve others who are interested in my work and the Jiulong system.

"The evil that men do lives after them, The good is oft interred with their bones"
William Shakespeare, Julius Caesar act III

Thank you for listening!

John P. Painter
__________________
Thank you for your patience!
Last edited by John Painter; 02-01-2002 at 11:59 AM.
Reply With Quote

[DaleDugas]

Good luck with life, you need it

[TTEscrima]

Keep writing libel.

Its rather amusing.

I make my own medicines and its a known fact. I make medicines that others use, and sell as their own. Seems you cannot grasp simple facts. and attack me again and again and again as well attack my teacher.

I am not afraid of being known, you are.

You attack me and post libelous post after libelous post. Be careful with that. You are writing pure libelous things here that are untrue, and verifiable. I would suggest that you stop while you are ahead.

Seems the truth hurts you. Rather than act like an adult you lash out like an abused child. Were you abused?

You are a sad little person.

Good luck with life. You need it.

Dale by all means, correct me if I'm wrong. Is that John Painter moving a student without touching him in the video you posted?

Are the pictures of John Painter labeled Capt John Painter not real? Was he A Texas Ranger? A US Army Ranger? If he was I'm terribly sorry, forgive me, please post where I can verify this info and I will make a public apology.

Is John Painter a doctor? Where did he go to medical school and where is he licensed to practice medicine?

I've seen his skills first hand, I was unimpressed, but hey maybe I'm not up on his style of Baqua, who did John Painter learn from again?

And if you didn't have Master Brewer is your sig and profile previously then I was mistaken, forgive me....I await your corrections on my other mistakes so I can correct them.