Chinese Boxing defeats Muay Thai!

[sherwinc]

Sherwinc, relax. Some styles of Karate with full-contact sparring like Shidokan and Kyokushin are half-decent.

...and sherwinc, it's pronounced "Shing-E".

its because my instructor is Amoy, he even called ngochokun as gochokun.

We only heard him saying it in chinese but we dont exactly get the correct spelling and its chinese character

[CKD]

Sherwinc more techniques does not mean better.
Sifu Wong is fond of an old kung-fu adage pertaining to training: "If you learn nine techniques and practice each of the techniques only once, you are not likely to have much achievement in martial arts. However, if you learn only one technique but practice that one technique nine times, you have a much greater chance for success." Sifu Wong adds that it is better to master one technique than know a little bit about several techniques. The objective is quality over quantity. Sifu Wong is one of the most skilled Hung Gar practicioners. He knows what he is talking about.

[MuayThaiFighter]

Sherwinc more techniques does not mean better.
Sifu Wong is fond of an old kung-fu adage pertaining to training: "If you learn nine techniques and practice each of the techniques only once, you are not likely to have much achievement in martial arts. However, if you learn only one technique but practice that one technique nine times, you have a much greater chance for success." Sifu Wong adds that it is better to master one technique than know a little bit about several techniques. The objective is quality over quantity. Sifu Wong is one of the most skilled Hung Gar practicioners. He knows what he is talking about.

Even though I don't like traditional arts as you have figured out by now,I do agree that it is about quality not quantity.

[sherwinc]

Sherwinc more techniques does not mean better.
Sifu Wong is fond of an old kung-fu adage pertaining to training: "If you learn nine techniques and practice each of the techniques only once, you are not likely to have much achievement in martial arts. However, if you learn only one technique but practice that one technique nine times, you have a much greater chance for success." Sifu Wong adds that it is better to master one technique than know a little bit about several techniques. The objective is quality over quantity. Sifu Wong is one of the most skilled Hung Gar practicioners. He knows what he is talking about.

speaking of only 9 kungfu alphabets (techniques).......

i can master that 9 kungfu alphabets in just 5 months in a daily practice.....

and how about if i reach 6 months of practice, and i want to learn another 7th technique???????

Note:
my KungFu instructor usually teach us 2 kungfu alphabets in a month...... so, within 3 months we already mastered 6 ChiDianBun KungFu alphabets.....

Another Note:
for me, i am interested to learn KungFu Alphabets and even without KungFu Forms, Alphabets is still i prioritize.......

cause a true martial artist for me is that i know a lot of TRICKS but i doesnt play GAMES........

Note:

Bruce Lee knows a lot of trics, but doesnt play games...... and he even not use his face or chest just to block opponents punches the way MuayThai, WesternBoxing did....... and he even hate the BrokenRhythm martial arts like Karate and TaeKwonDo....... and most of the time when BruceLee is interviewed - KungFu or Chinese Boxing is always he prioritized.........

[Toudiyama[NL]]

I learned the 14 basic alphabets of our style in the first month but I shure wasn't a master in them

You misuse "to master" you claim to have mastered 9 techniques in less than 6 months
Using your reasoning you would be able to defeat a veteran Pro boxer any time with ease, I can say only two words to that...dream on

Examplle, Aikido only has some 6 throws, to master them means being able to perfor that throw from ANY attack, ANY position and ANY angle

To master takes more that 130 days of training ( I take it sundays are off or fridays if you are a muslim)

[sherwinc]

I learned the 14 basic alphabets of our style in the first month but I shure wasn't a master in them

your 14 basic alphabets x 1 applications each = still, only 14 basic alphabets

and your 14 basic alphabets cannot compose WORDS.... and since cant compose words you cant also compose SENTENCES........

besides..... my kungfu instructor only allows 2 alphabets to master every month...... and if he notice that you did not yet perfect or mastered that 2 alphabets.... he will not teach you next alphabets even you reach 6 months of practicing that only 2 alphabets......

cause he believes that a slight error in execution, form, etc, is a big deterioration to kungfu, even thou were only human to commit slight or big mistakes...... and this is one of the Principles of the Non-Commercialized KungFu Arts.....

Examplle, Aikido only has some 6 throws, to master them means being able to perfor that throw from ANY attack, ANY position and ANY angle

To master takes more that 130 days of training ( I take it sundays are off or fridays if you are a muslim)

AiKiDo??????

Yesterday there was an Aikido Exhibition here in the City Mall, a well known AiKiDo name Tapondo...... as i see their exhibition, i suddenly turn back and laugh secretly..... why???????? cause its too ttooooo ttttooooooo very very far with the Bruce Lee principles........ its a disgrace in the field of martial arts.........

they practice Aikido but when engaged in a real street fight..... that Aikido practitioner fights like a MMA that i saw in UFC........ now wheres their throwing technique???????

[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE='Toudiyama[NL]']

[Mr. Gordo]

sherwinc, I respect your love for gung fu, but man, you're really nutriding it. I have a background in Wing Chun, Hsing-I, and Ba Gua. But to ignore other styles as being weak or lesser is very close minded. Muay Thai is a great fighting art. JKD is a great fighting art. BJJ is a great ground fighting art. If anything, it's not the art, it's effectiveness is entirely based on the practitioner.

they practice Aikido but when engaged in a real street fight..... that Aikido practitioner fights like a MMA that i saw in UFC........ now wheres their throwing technique???????

The same could be said of kung fu in UFC. Jason DeLucia does kung fu, but I didn't see much that resembled it when he fought. Also Toudiyama was referring to the 6 major throws in Aikido....it has a ton of stuff that is pretty terrible, but the throwing aspect when properly setup with an atemi is sound. Yoshinkan Aikido is probably the most combative form of Aikido out there since that is the style they teach the Tokyo Riot Police.

[Tameo]

Here is i think an interesting article I got off another site about Cheung's Tactical Defence.



Although conventional warfare as such, no longer exists in this day of lasers, nuclear missiles and other modern weapons of mass destruction (known as WMD), War (whether urban or international in scale) is still waged by people. So the proper training of personnel is the key to successful military operations or law enforcement. This is where martial arts still holds the key to success in today's environment of high-technology warfare.

Traditional Wing Chun Grandmaster William Cheung first realised this during his work with US Marines and the Navy Seal Team of the US 7th Fleet based in Japan from 1978 to 1980. It was during this time that Cheung began to develop concepts for his CTD (Cheung's Tactical Defense) Program.

Cheung's Tactical Defense (CTD) is an integrated system incorporating existing techniques and procedures directed towards the safety of those employed in law enforcement. The ultimate objective of the program is to furnish the Agent (Operative) with the necessary "tools" which he can use in life-threatening situations.

CTD is designed to integrate with the existing Programs of Tactical Training and Procedures of Law Enforcement Agencies. Therefore, CTD encourages students to utilise techniques in combination with what they have previously learned.

Most of all, CTD is a concept designed to enhance defensive tactical techniques and skills for Law Enforcement, and therefore can be learned in a short time. Since CTD deals with the most dangerous portion of law enforcement procedures, the taking control and custody of another human being, this program is designed to help get the job done with minimum risk.

If we return to those time-tested attributes of successful warriors, we can see that Grandmaster Cheung has incorporated them for use yet again in modern-day situations.

The Heart - One must want to WIN and stay PERFECTLY CALM in crisis. Cheung's Chi Meditation Program is most effective in controlling the heart rate in combat stress situations. A study by Martens, 1977, on combat stress situations shows there is a loss of fine motor skills at 115 beats per minute (BPM). Loss of complex motor skills like hand-eye coordination, timing and tracking occurs at 145 BPM. During the Chi Meditation, the heart rate and blood pressure slow down; the body becomes relaxed. Once this is mastered, one can reproduce this phenomenon in a survival stress environment. One then has more or better options to deal with the problem(s) at hand.

The Eyes - Physiologically, the eyes suffer greatly from stress situations. Pupils dilate and vision becomes more binocular dominant. A 70-80% field loss of peripheral vision occurs. Loss of depth perception, near vision and night vision is also evident (Martens, 1977). Cheung's eye-training program specifically addresses such problems and teaches one ways to improve and enhance visual focussing and tracking skills, even under stressful situations. His Eye Development Program enables one to improve the vision on static and moving objects by more than 200% in only a short period of time.

The Balance - Good balance is a prerequesite for skilful manoeuvring. In Traditional Wing Chun footwork, Cheung insists on a 50-50 weight distribution at all times. This will allow one to be able to move either foot at any time. Good balance is also energy preserving.

Skills and Combative Tactics - Cheung's application of skills and combative tactics is an extension of the B.O.E.C. (Balance, Opening, Elbow, arms Crossed) Principles that he teaches in Traditional Wing Chun Kung Fu.

The BOEC principles first advocate not fighting the strengths of the opponent, rather fight the weaknesses. If there is a weakness in the opponent's balance, that's where you attack. If there is a weakness in an opening, attack there. Control the opponent's elbow if an opportunity arises, as that will create an advantage. Arms crossed will also provide an opening from which an operative can secure an advantage as well.

In utilising the BOEC Fighting System, neither tremendous speed nor strength is required. BOEC relies on position as an advantage. This way the exponent will be able to use two arms, but the opponent will have only the use of one. This is known as controlling the Blind Side.

Controlling the opponent's lead arm is called controlling the Blind side. This allows one to stay at maximum distance from the opponent's other arm. Therefore one would only have to deal with one effective arm from the opponent at a time. Fighting on the blind side provides a logical way for one to attack the opponent's balance by controlling the elbow.

When attempting to control the Blind side, be sure to make contact on the elbow or below the elbow, but not above the elbow - in that case, the arm is still free. Controlling the elbow will control the balance of the opponent. If you push or pull on the opponent's elbow, his balance will be adversely affected.

This leads to trapping the opponent's arms when they are crossed to effectively control his balance and create openings for pressure point strikes for instant disablement. As you can see, the BOEC principles are an ideal choice for dealing with close quarter combat (CQC) situations that often occur in law enforcement.

Balance - When you attack the balance of your opponent, or put him off balance, he will be likely to offer openings, or targets.

Opening - While the exponent is standing on the blind side and attacking the openings, the opponent will be forced to protect the openings, leading him to commit to do the wrong thing (cross arms). Some people might stand with arm along side, offering a lot of target areas, trying to set a trap. Choosing the target to hit is vital. The exponent should attack near the elbow, restricting the lead arm . If the elbow itself is exposed, it then becomes the target.

Elbow - When the elbow is exposed, exponent can control the elbow, hence the opponent's balance and create more openings.

Arms Crossed - When the opponent has his elbow trapped from the blind side, most likely he will defend the immediate target, resulting in crossed arms. He will be forced into making one or more of the following errors:

1. blocking crossed arm;
2. leaning back, thus losing balance;
3. exposing more vital targets.

When the opponent has Crossed arms, the exponent can pin both arms, leaving the opponent virtually defenceless.

The eyes of the exponent should be constantly observing, detecting and assessing the weaknesses of the opponent in accordance to the BOEC system. Only then can he exploit these weaknesses and take full advantage of the opponent's mistakes.

While Cheung's CTD Program is slanted towards law enforcement training, the basic configuration also lends itself to military Special Operations Forces as well as to Paramilitary training. This has led to Grandmaster Cheung's recent alliance with the people of Global Studies Group, Inc. (GSGI).

It has created the latest development in the practical application of martial arts, in this case, Traditional Wing Chun, for use in training procedures and programs for Special Warfare and Special Reaction Teams. The majority of GSGI's programs are geared toward training-the-trainers, which are modelled after the Domestic Preparedness Training Initiative, which focuses specifically on the enhancement of crisis management capabilities for groups and organisations responding to criminal and/or terrorist activities.

Along with Grandmaster Cheung, the personnel who comprise Global Studies Group, Inc. (GSGI) are all most qualified and the blend is well suited for the task at hand:

Mr. Harry Humphries - The founder of GSGI. A former Navy Seal with extensive combat and counter terrorism experience. He is a leading authority in Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD) threat awareness and crises management procedures. Humphries is currently participating in the "Master Instructor Program", Police Training Institute, Illinois University. He is a former instructor of Advanced SWAT Hostage Rescue Training at Eastern Michigan University and is a former GUNSITE Training Center Adjunct Instructor (Tactical Operations). Humphries has also starred in movies such as "The Siege", "The Rock", "Con Air" and "GI Jane", as well as being responsible for the combat choreography for those films.
Lt. Commander (Ret.) Scott Lyon - 30 years experience in the US Navy. Trained as instructor in UDT/SEAL BUDS. As a member of a Special Warfare Group, he has led men in over 300 combat raids and missions in three different combat theatres, including the first liberation of 28 POW's in Vietnam in 1968. He was decorated 28 times which made him one of the most decorated servicemen in the U.S.
Commander (Ret.) Richard Marcinko - 30 years experience in the US Navy. The Founder and Head of SEAL TEAM SIX. He has authored many books on his exploits in the Navy Seals as well as a New York Times business bestseller, "The Rogue Warrior's Strategy for Success: A Commando's Principles of Winning". Marcinko runs a private security firm whose clients include governments and corporations. He also heads a motivational training and team-building company.

It is interesting to note, given the qualifications of all persons connected with this alliance, that it has come to fruition at this time. Many police and military administrators have downplayed the use of traditional martial arts in their training methods for many years. They would say that (traditional martial arts) are not realistic in their approach or their training, often that they're just a sport. Or comments like 'they're too complex to learn quickly' or 'too hard to incorporate with the rest of our program'.

For Grandmaster William Cheung to convince these highly-qualified, professional warriors of the continuing need for traditional martial arts to play a part in the successful defence of neighbourhoods, cities and even countries is a solid step for all martial arts practitioners. Even in today's environment of guns, missiles and nuclear weapons, traditional martial arts still plays a major role in the continuance of our survival.

[shirase]

"The Eyes - Physiologically, the eyes suffer greatly from stress situations. Pupils dilate and vision becomes more binocular dominant. A 70-80% field loss of peripheral vision occurs. Loss of depth perception, near vision and night vision is also evident (Martens, 1977). Cheung's eye-training program specifically addresses such problems and teaches one ways to improve and enhance visual focussing and tracking skills, even under stressful situations. His Eye Development Program enables one to improve the vision on static and moving objects by more than 200% in only a short period of time."

Im just wondering. do you have any more information on this? My eyes arent too good and ive been trying some bate's exercises to make my vision better, but its either not working very well or its going real slow .Do you know what exercises are done in "cheung's eye-training program"?

[Tameo]

[QUOTE=shirase
Im just wondering. do you have any more information on this? My eyes arent too good and ive been trying some bate's exercises to make my vision better, but its either not working very well or its going real slow .Do you know what exercises are done in "cheung's eye-training program"?[/QUOTE]

Nope sorry I have no information on the eye training program. In Kung-fu class the only eye exercises we do is placing your hand in front of you and moving your head side to side but keeping your eyes on one point on hand. Then we do same thing but moving head up and down. This improves eye coordination.

[Toudiyama[NL]]

your 14 basic alphabets x 1 applications each = still, only 14 basic alphabets

and your 14 basic alphabets cannot compose WORDS.... and since cant compose words you cant also compose SENTENCES........

BULL!!! because we use the building blocks we can combine them in ANY way we want unlike yours, which are for instance a combo of trapping and attacking and learned as one tewchnique
IF ther would only be one application, how do you explain that different styles have different applications for the same form?

besides..... my kungfu instructor only allows 2 alphabets to master every month...... and if he notice that you did not yet perfect or mastered that 2 alphabets.... he will not teach you next alphabets even you reach 6 months of practicing that only 2 alphabets......

so if you are a fast learner and able to learn 4 techniques, will he teach you 4 or still only 2?

cause he believes that a slight error in execution, form, etc, is a big deterioration to kungfu, even thou were only human to commit slight or big mistakes...... and this is one of the Principles of the Non-Commercialized KungFu Arts.....

Even though every humon has his own specific build and therefore excecution of techniques could differ?

AiKiDo??????

Yesterday there was an Aikido Exhibition here in the City Mall, a well known AiKiDo name Tapondo...... as i see their exhibition, i suddenly turn back and laugh secretly..... why???????? cause its too ttooooo ttttooooooo very very far with the Bruce Lee principles........ its a disgrace in the field of martial arts.........

they practice Aikido but when engaged in a real street fight..... that Aikido practitioner fights like a MMA that i saw in UFC........ now wheres their throwing technique???????

you didn't get the point, do you, the point was, few techniques but over time learn to apply these from any attack, making an invinite number of applications per technique

Never heard of Tapondo and as far as the streetfighting goes, how do you know these people haven't done or are doing any other MA's besides Aikido? How did you know that the guy in the streetfight was an AIkidoka
And did the guy win or lose, how did the fight go for you to claim it to go like UFC, was there actually a fight you watch are are you talking hypoteticaly?

[Mr. Gordo]

AiKiDo??????

Yesterday there was an Aikido Exhibition here in the City Mall, a well known AiKiDo name Tapondo...... as i see their exhibition, i suddenly turn back and laugh secretly..... why???????? cause its too ttooooo ttttooooooo very very far with the Bruce Lee principles........ its a disgrace in the field of martial arts.........

they practice Aikido but when engaged in a real street fight..... that Aikido practitioner fights like a MMA that i saw in UFC........ now wheres their throwing technique???????

sherwinc,

We both have kung fu backgrounds, but it's also good to keep an open mine about other styles. I also used to think ALL Aikido was for new age granola heads looking to build up their "ki." If you ever have the opportunity to spar with a Yoshinkan Aikido practitioner, you'll gain a greater appreciation for what authentic Aikido really is. Yoshinkan Aikido is the style that is taught to the Tokyo Riot Police, and their style of Aikido is real deal, and a very good standup fighting art. Yoshinkan was founded by Gozo Shioda who was Ueshiba's longest live in student. Also the style of Aikido that Shioda learned was known as Ueshiba's pre WW2 style Aikido which was all focused on street fighting. It was after WW2 that Ueshiba became more involved with spirtuality and watered down his art for the post WW2 students that studied with him. This is precisely why the majority of Aikido demo's you see now look about as deadly as a fluffy bunny rabbit. However, the combative stuff is alive in well.

If you ever have the time, you may like the book "Angry White Pyjamas." It's the true story of an Oxford poet that takes a year long course in Yoshinkan Aikido. I think you'll really enjoy it.

Here's the Yoshinkan Homepage in Japan:

http://www.yoshinkan-aikido.org/contents/home?language=english

[sherwinc]

BULL!!! because we use the building blocks we can combine them in ANY way we want unlike yours, which are for instance a combo of trapping and attacking and learned as one tewchnique
IF ther would only be one application, how do you explain that different styles have different applications for the same form?

for example of 6 unique applications in each 1 alphabets:

in WingChun's TanSau or PalmUpHand
1. TanSau can be used to deflect ThaiBri's lungpunch
2. Attacking ThaiBri's ugly face using TanSau.... so, defense becomes an offense.......
3. After trapping ThaiBri's leg by using your both hands, you can immediately support it using TanSau, and break ThaiBri's kneecap using elbows......
4. Using TanSau to push ThaiBri's back in order to bump his self on the wall, dont forget to support ThaiBri's lead leg with your NgoChoKun's ChienBe Stance.....
5. Using TanSau to BridgeTheGap with his forearm in order to ChiSao him, your bridge sensitivity dictates follows next......
6. Using TanSau to strike ThaiBri's Adam's Apple, for him to realize how effective kungfu is.........

Note:
so, we have 6 unique applications in a single alphabet TanSau..... but there are more than 6 applications for you to discover.........

so, if there are 18 hand alphabets of wingchun...... simply saying that:
18 hand alphabets x 6 unique applications = 108 overall unique applications each for you to discover yet.......

so if you are a fast learner and able to learn 4 techniques, will he teach you 4 or still only 2?

if you want to learn it more faster then the slower you'll learn your martial art.........

the correct term is:
DO IT SLOW, WHILE THE ACTION IS FAST

Convinced??????????

[AlexJitsu]

STOP! STOP! STOOOOOOP!!!!!

Sherwinc you're making yourself look stupid. Sure, it's possible that could happen, but that's not how a real fight happens.

[sherwinc]

STOP! STOP! STOOOOOOP!!!!!

Sherwinc you're making yourself look stupid. Sure, it's possible that could happen, but that's not how a real fight happens.

by the way.....

here is the pic of my second chidianbun student of mine, since i have only two students taught.......

He used ChiDianBun KungFu and some of TangSooDo Karate kicks unto his opponent a Baranggay Captain 2.5times bigger than him and his second opponent a Baranggay Kagawad 2times bigger than him also......

that Baranggay Captain is an expert in Boxing and Arnis..... and this Baranggay Kagawad knows Karate and some boxing skills......

so, it is a battle between 1 versus 2.........

that Baranggay Kagawad fell under the dirty canal beside the rough road..... and that Baranggay Captain had cuts and tears in her face with full of red blood unto his shirt......

it was a bloody fight, but kungfu hands never stops until the opponent is down.......

and as i heard it i am angry with my second student Ryan cause he doesnt know the word PATIENCE, i already told him that the more kungfu you'll learn the more patience you'll have...... to avoid fighting is to win......

ryan knows only 23 alphabets of ChiDianBun......

he used combinations of ChiDianBun Level 2 #1,2,3 and ChiDianBun Level 2 #11,12 and he also use ChiDianBun Level 2 #9 (alphabets)........

the a little insteap jumping spinning back trust kick of tang soo do karate as his final move or his last move.......