Ngo Cho Kun

[sherwinc]

Check this site: http://www.geocities.com/dantanliong/ & click on the sam chien video link, & tell me what you guys think.

THE VERY IMPORTANT TEXT THERE IN THAT WEBSITE IS:

"the simplest & most effective techniques that would stop an attacker in the least amount of time."

meaning: No more plenty of Fight Rounds that reaches up to 12 rounds of fights while both fighters are still willing to fight for the next 13th rounds...... applicable in a one-versus-multipleopponents....... and the handheld weaponry is the very important of all.....

very impressive to compare NgoChoKun's Power(Force) versus ChiDianBun's Numerous Techniques

[sherwinc]

....

on this website

http://www.hokkian-siauwlim.com/book.html

look for:
CHUAN TOU meaning (HOK KIAN = KUN-TAO)

is this the type of KungFu found in Southern Mindanao by the Muslim Chinese Martial Arts?

[Pitbullz]

happy labor's day

[Pitbullz]

Check this site: http://www.geocities.com/dantanliong/ & click on the sam chien video link, & tell me what you guys think.

i never thought that i looked that fat in the picture hehehe you tought ur children well

[krys]

Is this the type of KungFu found in Southern Mindanao by the Muslim Chinese Martial Arts?

Yes, Kuntao, but there are different systems.... peoples there do not really care about names... any old chinese martial art would be called Kuntao...

These arts are rarely shown in public, but it is sometimes possible to see them during wedding ceremonies or other muslim celebrations....

[konghan]

i never thought that i looked that fat in the picture hehehe you tought ur children well

Actually you don`t look fat you look more like a "parak". maybe they didn`t notice you when they robbed the jeepney? usually robbers will not hit a jeepney if there is a "parak" looking like person in there? lol.

Thanks, I`ll be uploading fighting techniques & its applicability that are found in sam chien.

"Kun Tao" this word which is hokkian actually means " kun=fist, tao=head put them together it means head-fist".

Hokkian MA majority ngo cho kun has greatly influence South East Asian martial arts. The sample technique that I saw in the web about "Silat" MA are actually identical on what we can find in "song sui" of ngo cho kun.

I guesed hokkian MA masters are more humble with humility that they are not interested in commercialising NCK but rather their approached is more on quite & traditional teaching. In a sense it makes sense, because "karma" wise why would one want to teach somebody to hurt another person? isn`t it better to teach how to heal? Maybe that`s one reason original masters of MA are also healers. In fact I believe bhudist monks also train in healing.

The word " jeet kun do" I believe that is hokkian too? jeet=catch, kun=fist & do=way or form put them together= "catch-fist-form or way".

Many new MA are now cashing in & benefitting from ngo cho kun, its too bad there is no such thing as "property rights or technique patent". Lol

[krys]

Hokkian MA majority ngo cho kun has greatly influence South East Asian martial arts. The sample technique that I saw in the web about "Silat" MA are actually identical on what we can find in "song sui" of ngo cho kun.

What is song sui?

Silat is far older than Ngo Cho Kun.... there are thousands of silat systems, one kung fu system that has a lot in common with silat is Bagua... but silat is older than Bagua....

Anyway many south east asian kung fu systems were influenced by silat.... the opposite is also true...

Have a look at thoose links on Indonesian Kuntao:

http://www.angelfire.com/droid/kuntao_matjan/silat-kuntao.htm

http://www.angelfire.com/droid/kuntao_matjan/silat-kuntao.htm

http://www.angelfire.com/droid/kuntao_matjan/

[sherwinc]

I guesed hokkian MA masters are more humble with humility that they are not interested in commercialising NCK but rather their approached is more on quite & traditional teaching. In a sense it makes sense, because "karma" wise why would one want to teach somebody to hurt another person? isn`t it better to teach how to heal? Maybe that`s one reason original masters of MA are also healers. In fact I believe bhudist monks also train in healing.

Very True, you are a true kungfu instructor if you know how to heal after the things that you destroy (depending on the type of damage that your fist done)

Example in a Phoenix Eyed Fist Knuckle attack:
Attacking with a lesser power = can heal
but .......
Attacking with a forcefull power = can kill

Many new MA are now cashing in & benefitting from ngo cho kun, its too bad there is no such thing as "property rights or technique patent". Lol

my kungfu instructor always said "Do not show off your technique in a public, once they see it, they will only get your technique and claimed it them"

[konghan]

What is song sui?

Silat is far older than Ngo Cho Kun.... there are thousands of silat systems, one kung fu system that has a lot in common with silat is Bagua... but silat is older than Bagua....

Anyway many south east asian kung fu systems were influenced by silat.... the opposite is also true...

Have a look at thoose links on Indonesian Kuntao:

http://www.angelfire.com/droid/kuntao_matjan/silat-kuntao.htm

http://www.angelfire.com/droid/kuntao_matjan/silat-kuntao.htm

http://www.angelfire.com/droid/kuntao_matjan/

Song sui translated in english is something like, "running water or flowing water". In Kong Han it is consider the 7th level form. This is my favorite form. Its fast, fluid & powerful.

With due respect, how can south east asian kung fu have been influence by silat? when kung fu originated in China in Shao Lin temple? Also base on what I read on those web link, it seem that Silat was greatly enrich with the introduction of NCK from hokkian immigrants, unless I read it wrong? I think, Silat in the old days was more of a general fighting system use by many local warriors. Just like the fighting system that of chinese military use in the old days are not really MA but a fighting system. But after the arrival of hokkian immigrants NCK was incorporated into Silat. NCK, seem never took or claim any credit for enriching & contrubuting on the development of other MA. Like karate, karate by their own have attributed their development to NCK . NCK, seem to prefer stay behind the backdoor.

[krys]

With due respect, how can south east asian kung fu have been influence by silat?

When Chinese martists traveled to SEA they encountered different cultures with their own martial arts.... through fights and exchanges many chinese mas evolved into Kuntao....
This is confimed in the link:

However, the term Kuntao is not really equivalent to saying 'Kung Fu' or 'Wu Shu' (Chinese terms for martial arts) for in many cases Kuntao arts from Southeast Asia have diverged from their Chinese origins far enough to be considered distinct arts in their own rights.

chinese origin means they were initially kung fu systems....

To refer to transitional arts which are consciously combinations of Chinese and Indonesian techniques and methods, but which still retain some (possibly, but not necessarily, a majority of) consciously Chinese elements.


Kuntao (outside the Philippines where muslim filipinos practice both pure cmas and the hybrid form) is mostly practiced by chinese peoples....

Many cmas are actually from muslim origin..... after the mongolian invasion arabs and persians came to China and brought their mas... their descendants the Hui chinese became famous for their martial arts skills....

Also base on what I read on those web link, it seem that Silat was greatly enrich with the introduction of NCK from hokkian immigrants, unless I read it wrong?

Some silat systems were enriched by hokkian systems, by arab, persian (some silat systems use arab-persian weapons), indian ways of fighting.... I do not know of NCK influence, NCK seems to be a bit "young" to have that influence on such a widespread system...

I think, Silat in the old days was more of a general fighting system use by many local warriors. Just like the fighting system that of chinese military use in the old days are not really MA but a fighting system. But after the arrival of hokkian immigrants NCK was incorporated into Silat.

Silat is a very old martial art with history and culture.... in Sumatra it was organised into a ma in the 6th century... There were (still are) monks practicing silat, it was associated with the royal famillies of the Sri Vishaya and Majapahit empires...
NCK is from 19th century.....

Actually the indonesian were among the first to defeat the mongol army... indonesian warriors using silat defeated Khubilai khans soldiers in the battlefield and repelled the invasion...

[konghan]

When Chinese martists traveled to SEA they encountered different cultures with their own martial arts.... through fights and exchanges many chinese mas evolved into Kuntao....
This is confimed in the link:

However, the term Kuntao is not really equivalent to saying 'Kung Fu' or 'Wu Shu' (Chinese terms for martial arts) for in many cases Kuntao arts from Southeast Asia have diverged from their Chinese origins far enough to be considered distinct arts in their own rights.

chinese origin means they were initially kung fu systems....

To refer to transitional arts which are consciously combinations of Chinese and Indonesian techniques and methods, but which still retain some (possibly, but not necessarily, a majority of) consciously Chinese elements.


Kuntao (outside the Philippines where muslim filipinos practice both pure cmas and the hybrid form) is mostly practiced by chinese peoples....

Many cmas are actually from muslim origin..... after the mongolian invasion arabs and persians came to China and brought their mas... their descendants the Hui chinese became famous for their martial arts skills....



Some silat systems were enriched by hokkian systems, by arab, persian (some silat systems use arab-persian weapons), indian ways of fighting.... I do not know of NCK influence, NCK seems to be a bit "young" to have that influence on such a widespread system...



Silat is a very old martial art with history and culture.... in Sumatra it was organised into a ma in the 6th century... There were (still are) monks practicing silat, it was associated with the royal famillies of the Sri Vishaya and Majapahit empires...
NCK is from 19th century.....

Actually the indonesian were among the first to defeat the mongol army... indonesian warriors using silat defeated Khubilai khans soldiers in the battlefield and repelled the invasion...

Very interesting & very enlighting. That is why I`m always facinated with History. Thanks for the info.

So, I guess becuase of the word "kuntao" which is hokkian in origin it kind`d give the wrong impression ( just like I did ) that it was of hokkian NCK origin? But rather its` more of an added thing that locals have incorporated some techniques from kung fu mostly from the southern style to their silat system becuase of influences from early chinese immigrants. Just like Go Ju Ryu or Japanese karate which has its` origin in NCK.

Silat in its original form, is it the same with arnis in the Philippines?

[krys]

Silat in its original form, is it the same with arnis in the Philippines?

I think Arnis comes from Silat... most filipinos are actually Malay peoples, and silat was the original art of the Malays...

Nowadays silat in the Philippines is only (with a few exceptions) practiced by muslim filipinos but other tribes (lumads, mountain peoples...) who were not conquered by the spaniards practice martial arts that seem to be related, same kind of footwork, stances, same kinds of locks....

Actually when I started to learn filipino silat weaponry (knive and bolo) I was surprised to see it was like advanced Arnis...

Silat uses many forms while most Arnis systems nowadays do not teach them....
Contrarly to Arnis training is done with live blades from the start instead of sticks.... but they are taught later while in Arnis you start learning with weapons.

By the way in Cebu there is Arnis with Kung Fu influence (master johnny Chiuten's system) and Kung Fu systems that use Arnis concepts (Tat Kun Tou)....

[konghan]

Becuase weaponry wise, I have seen some demo of arnis, & analysing it carefully its not much different from chinese two handed weapons. I guess when it comes to combat fighting everything will have its similarities it all boils down to training that makes the difference.

But in old China only special people, officers or high officials train in their own respective weaponry like, double hook, two handed swords, double war axe, etc. regular soldeirs are taught only the basics. Any special skill belongs to officers. But in martial art school all students are taught special weaponries, that is why MA are better fighters than regular soldiers.

It is good to see that Silat or arnis is really starting to make it`s mark in the world of martial art. Come to think of martial art, I think its getting saturated with almost every year new MA comes out & the old traditional ones fade away into history books.

Not only that, I heard that there is a degree, "Bachelor of arts in Chinese Kung Fu". In fact here in the west majority of MA schools here have to have all kinds of credentials & degree, things like: coaching certificate, physical education graduate, sceintific theraphy certificate & etc.

[krys]

But in old China only special people, officers or high officials train in their own respective weaponry like, double hook, two handed swords, double war axe, etc. regular soldeirs are taught only the basics. Any special skill belongs to officers. But in martial art school all students are taught special weaponries, that is why MA are better fighters than regular soldiers.

I heard that in ancient times to become a military mandarin one had to pass tests... did that also involve kung fu?

It is good to see that Silat or arnis is really starting to make it`s mark in the world of martial art.

Hmm, there are many commercial schools now.....

Come to think of martial art, I think its getting saturated with almost every year new MA comes out & the old traditional ones fade away into history books.

Yes unfortunately traditional arts are disapearing, many new tma teachers are black sheeps only interested in selling the arts...

The problem is that students nowadays are usually not ready to study hard enough and have little patience, fast food culture.... they are easy prey for fake teachers.
In my opinion TMAs were never made for diffusion to a large public, there were never that many masters to teach large groups.
Between most of fake tmas taught in the west and mma it is better to study mmas...

Learning traditional martial arts is very hard and asks for discipline and personal sacrifices , I would say at least 2-3 hours of serious training every day...
but it is really rewarding in all aspects. Not only for fighthing but also for personal development, moral attitude, and health.

Fortunately some peoples in Asia are keeping the flame alive (NCK seems to be doing a good job in the Philippines, there are other groups in Manila too ...).

Not only that, I heard that there is a degree, "Bachelor of arts in Chinese Kung Fu". In fact here in the west majority of MA schools here have to have all kinds of credentials & degree, things like: coaching certificate, physical education graduate, sceintific theraphy certificate & etc.

This is ridiculous.... even in the Philippines they wanted to introduce teaching certificates for Arnis, imagine old masters who have the knowledge and fought many time to the death
would not be allowed to teach anymore if they didn't pay for a one week course and get the certificate....

Now in the US there are even "Doctors of Filipino martial arts".....this is shameless...

I would say 95% of the tmas in the west are fake, it took me years to find a good Wing Chun school.... many crooks are giving a really bad image to the art.

[Nothingness]

I guess some of you want to know . So, I arrived in my hometown and met my master. After some chitchat time, he checked my sparring skills for a while. Then, guess what? "Show me your Sam Chien." Can't live without it, can we? . Then he saw it and fixed couple things. I guess my first couple weeks will be training Sam Chien hehe.