A question for people who have been doing Filipino arts for a while

[Guro Dave Gould]

Guro Dave Gould

Hi guys,

I hope that everyone is well, I read this one and just had to reply. By the way everyone made some very good points on the matter. I will make my response on a point by point basis;

>>> "I took a few Kali/Escrima classes and they were lots of fun, but I thought to myself how can this be of any use in self-defense situations. For example, I am not carrying around sticks and knives with me to help me defend against people who may attack with sticks and knives."<<<

Interesting question, first off if you only took a few classes I don`t think that you can conform to such a strong opinion on the matter. It really does come down to from whom you got your training and what that persons experience and mindset was / is. I thought that I knew what the Indigenous Pilipino Warrior Arts were all about until I met and began to train with my Instructor Punong Guro Edgar G. Sulite, and he quickly convinced me that I knew nothing of the Pilipino Warrior Arts. I had trained in the Pilipino Warrior Arts for 10 yrs. before meeting PG Sulite in 1992 and was convinced that I was quite good, he made quick work of my ignorance and showed me that there was indeed a difference between sport and combat. Since day one I have dedicated myself to him and his teachings. After 22 years in the Pilipino Warrior Arts I still respect a man with a knife or Machete and now rely only on my abilities to speak for me moreso than my words.

>>> "So if you are not carrying these weapons with you at all times, then what use will it be to learn this art?"<<<

The Pilipino Warrior Arts by definition are not exclusively a "Stick", "Knife" or "Machete" fighting system or style. They are one methodology of fighting principles that can be translated through anything that you can place in your hand as a weapon to the point of having nothing and then translating the knowledge through empty hand, kicks, elbows, head-butts, and knees. We train with many things native to the Philippines such as Knives, Machetes, Swords, Sticks and any combination there of. As well we also practice with more closely available items in the form of potential weapons such as Rocks, Keys, Bar stools, Pool balls, Pool Sticks, ash trays, screw drivers, ink pens, 2 by 4`s and many other items found in ones immediate environment. In the Pilipino Warrior Arts the weapon of choice is ones mind governed by the mindset of a Warrior and this wields what ever can be lifted from its resting place as an effective weapon should the situation necessitate it to be so. Personaly speaking though I go no-where without having a couple of blades at my disposal, and where I can`t carry knives I choose not to go.

>>> "That thought prompted me to drop out and stick with my boxing, kickboxing, and BJJ classes. So I am looking for some counter-arguments to my thought process."<<<

And you should fare relevently well until you come across someone with a knife or Machete hell bent on lifting your head from you shoulders. It`s always better to have it and not need it than it is to not have it and need it in your time of need. Especially when your life hangs in the balance of what you think that you will do in a situation and what you end up doing for real under duress when there is no time for thinking leaving only time to react with positive effect or die trying. The street is no place to be when you find out that something will not work for you in defending life and limb. Because at that point in time your fate will be left at the mercy of your assailant and he will either choose to be merciful with you or not, leaving your life dangling in the wind independent of your self will or intention. This is not a good place to find one-self.

In closing let me say that it does come down to the way that you practice and what your mindset is while practicing. Just going through the motions without intention will get you no-where. For one to be effective on the street the way that one practices has to resemble as close as possible the very thing for which one is training to contend with. At some point in time you have to allow your training to brush up against reality and only then will you know what works for you in real time against a non-conforming opponent under duress and what doesn`t. Only a person who is really trying to slam his knife through your head can give you the adequate energy for such a violent encounter. So unless you replicate that level of intensity into your training you will not be completely prepared to go against it in the street should the need arise. Good luck in your training, and go well...

Guro Dave Gould

https://www.LamecoEskrima.org

[Airyu]

Hello,

Great reply Guro Gould!

Many students fail to stick with an art long enough to realize it is not all about what their initial impressions prior to training really may not have been true. In the FMA, weapons are the reality. On the street, weapons are a reality. You may be carrying, but almost for certain a determined adversary will be. Blades, sticks, chains etc, are frequently carried by criminals, or can quickly be found in the environment. Being able to deal with and survive the initial attack, may allow you the opportunity to escape and survive, or even deploy a weapon you may be carrying to further protect yourself. But, if you have never incoporated this training into your practice, there will be no reference to it in your repertoire of fighting tactics.

Train Hard, it is the Way!

Gumagalang
Guro Steve L.

https://www.Sayoc.com

https://www.Bujinkandojo.net

[spiderchoke]

This has been one of the most intelligent and informative threads I have seen in a while. I could not even hope to contend with the combined knowledge of the people who have posted on this, but I can give my opinion on the arts.
I have found that Kali and the other Filipino arts have given me more gratification and enjoyment training in them than any of the other arts I train in. I feel most comfortable with them, and feel that they are the most complete systems I have encountered. They are absolutely applicable to a real life confrontation.
I do agree that if not trained properly, nothing is applicable. If you do not train in football correctly, then you will fail when you try to apply it on the field. I have developed more sensitivity and tested my mettle more realistically with the Filipino arts than any other I have tried. I feel most confident in the training I have in the Filipino arts.
I continue to train in other styles, but have not felt as connected to the art as I have with Kali. This is also important in training and excelling in an art.

Oh, and yes I still feel this way when my fingers are smashed and bleeding on the floor from an overzealous new student, or when my body is sore from the beating and grappling with sticks.

"Everyday spent training is one day closer to learning something."
......Spiderchoke

[two sword]

Great post guys!!

Just thought I'd put my two cents..

My father started me out in weapons training at a very young age. All sorts of live blade training starting at the age of six...

This kind of training prepared me for all sorts of street encounters. If you constantly see blades in training fists in the street don't phase you as much. Thats one of the points of training with weapons.

Weapons in street encouters are real, BELIEVE ME! I haven't seen an one on one fight since I was ten years old and everyone is armed with something. Thats the problem when you deal with trouble in the street.


Keep up the training..it takes time to develope the reflexes and state of mind necessary for combat...

You won't be dissapointed!

[shuyun]

what they said.

[old skool dude]

if you are not carrying these weapons with you at all times, then what use will it be to learn this art? That thought prompted me to drop out and stick with my boxing, kickboxing, and BJJ classes. So I am looking for some counter-arguments to my thought process.[/QUOTE]
some of the most important skills in fighting are timing, mobility, adaptability and flow. The FMA enable you to learn all of these things simultaneously. Take for example a simple drill where you are doing a diagonal number one, followed by a diagonal number two strike. Your partner is doing the mirror image of that drill with you. Although you "know what's coming" still, you have to comensate moment by moment, for your partners, speed, his distance, and his timing. The drill teaches you not only how to simultaneously to block and strike, but also how to adapt to your partner's rhythm and your own. The fact that it's fun to do also encourages you to practice longer, thus improving your skill. Furthermore, the constant "threat" of the stick keeps your attention focused on what is happening moment by moment. Add live blades to your training and your focus will improve dramatically.
As many others have already said, the FMA have many empty hand components that employ knees, elbows, locks and throws, many of these techniques are concealed within the drills and basic exercises.

[shuyun]

situational appraisal is another thing that the FMA teaches you. that means deciding when to or whn not to fight. that means assessing winablility and possible escape routes.

if you can duck and evade a stick cant you do the same with a punch. and by the way a weapon does not need to be anything big (or obvious) i always carry a fountain pen with me as a clandestine weapon. its good enought for stabbing and i can never be accused of carrying a weapon.

[kiddbjj]

...

the FMA are weapons based because they were developed in a the Phillipine islands where there was little in the way of law and order and therefore it was common for people to be robbed etc by neighbouring groups. weapons were for obvious reasons a great equaliser for people with little time to dedicate to making their hands their primary weapon.
when the Spanish colonised the islands they also made it illegal to carry firearms so naturally the people made use of what they could find. Sticks and basic knives. The end result was that the Phillipino's ended up smacking the crap out of many colonial invaders and put up enough resitance over a long enough time to finally get them to leave.
FMA as with most arts are specific to the era and situation they were born of. Remember, the samurai of Japan became obsolete when the Western world brought guns and cannons to their shore.
Assess your threat and train accordingly.

[shootodog]

This discussion will only work if the prospective student subscribes to the idea that many violent crimes are committed with bludgeoning (bats, tire irons, hammers etc.) or blade (box cutters, steak knife, shanks etc.) oriented weapons.

If that sounds like something that happens in the real world then the stick and knife concepts from a combative FMAs school will begin to make sense.

disregarding the empty hands of fma?