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  • Escrima Empty Hand vs Wing Chun

    The empty hand techniques I have seen from FMA are similar to Wing Chun and JKD/Jun Fan. Anybody ever seen any sparring or matches between FMA and one of these other styles?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Bjjwrestler
    The empty hand techniques I have seen from FMA are similar to Wing Chun and JKD/Jun Fan. Anybody ever seen any sparring or matches between FMA and one of these other styles?
    I've sparred Wing Chun guys and have had some exposure to Wing Chun. There are a lot of similarities between FMA and WC. They both are good at trapping - and, as such, will draw on many of the same concepts/principles. The hubad drills in FMA develop the same body of attributes as WC's chi sao. But hubad isn't as "sticky" as chi sao. That's the first thing many WC guys notice when they see hubad.

    Personally, I think the difference comes from the blade orientation in the FMA. But, in my experience, the FMA training lends well to WC training and vice versa because they do draw a lot from the same set of concepts/principles.

    Mike

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Bjjwrestler
      The empty hand techniques I have seen from FMA are similar to Wing Chun and JKD/Jun Fan. Anybody ever seen any sparring or matches between FMA and one of these other styles?

      I have some great footage of Suro Mike Inay (Inayan Eskrima founder) and Danny Inosanto flow sparring with hands... The film was made in the early 70's during an informal training session. It is interesting to see that Mr. Inosanto had a more direct or linear attack (which was effective) and Suro Inay employed pure Inayan Kadena de Mano using direct and oblique angles of attack (which was also effective).

      Both arts are effective of course however I would pontificate that the FMA has an edge (so to speak) in that it must, at it's core, always keep an awareness for an edged weapon. In the end what really matters is the man or woman employing the art.

      --
      Steve Klement
      Inayan Masirib Guro
      www.inayaneskrima.com
      klement@inayaneskrima.com
      Inayan Systems International

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      • #4
        There are many different fmas..... therefore many different empty hand combat systems....

        Some fmas don't train in weapons: Yaw Yan (kind of local Muay Thai, but one school integrated grappling and weapons), Dumog (local form of wrestling), Judo Combat (local bjj+striking)....

        I practice wc and fmas (silat, arnis), the silat system I practice has the trapping/fast striking aspects of wc, but is more circular involving lots of scooping,twisting movements, also dodging/punching like in western boxing....

        I was able to fight against a Dumog champion from Panay using my bjj....he took me easily to the ground but there I was able to resist and he couldn't submit me...
        curiously they use their chin as an additional limb to help controlling you...
        In my opinion they have better stand up skills than bjj but are less skilled on the ground...

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        • #5
          Having sparred a few wc guys, I have found that once a contact is made, they are pretty good, but the shortcomings lie in their lack of mobility due to the stance. Primarily, a defensive manner of waiting for the attack to come. The footwork in the FMA's allow a practitioner to bait and feint attacks more, and if necessary implement a grappling attack, which most wc guys are succeptable to due to the upright back straight stance. In our methods of pangamut, we use the "turtleback" method which lends itself to the knife because we are always "hollowed out", now this being said, the crouch stance is a good foundation for sprawling on a grappler, or getting in close to launch a box, kind of like the mike tyson defense. This stance can be seen in many of the old filipino boxing champions. so before i rattle forever, i guess wc, would prefer to control the center, where we would prefer to control the angle AND center.

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          • #6
            but i can assure you that there is now doubt that sherwinc will get insencesed and tell you about how great wing chung is.
            haha I'm surprised he didn't answer yet....


            Actually wing chun practicioners use angling steps.... good wc practicioners should move out of the road and attack from the side at 45 degrees angles.

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            • #7
              steve,
              is it possible for you to post some of the video of guro i. and mr. inay for us to see.
              rob

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              • #8
                Originally posted by HandtoHand
                Well there are only four possible explanations for this anomoly.

                A: Sherwinc read what i posted and i didnt respond inorder to spite me.
                B: Sherwinc was going to wait untill i said the above and then come in and say that actually he didnt see it.
                C: Sherwinc just hasnt noticed it yet, as a direct result of him multitasking; him reading this site and stroking his salami to his perverted porno sites (not the normal porno sites)
                D: Or sherwinc just didnt notice it yet.

                E: I already read this, but i did not comment because Krys WingChun explaination is true and correct. A comment from me later when i see if there's wrong explaination or mis-interpretation of the art.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by sikal
                  The hubad drills in FMA develop the same body of attributes as WC's chi sao. But hubad isn't as "sticky" as chi sao. That's the first thing many WC guys notice when they see hubad.

                  Mike
                  Do you know what "Hubad" means????????

                  "Naked!!!!"

                  for example:
                  HandtoHand is already naked when he fights mad last Tuesday.

                  meaning:
                  No clothes, or naked (exposed)

                  CONVINCED???????

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I really notice that FMA (Filipino Martial Arts) are very popular all over the world but here in Panay Philippines, theres no Filipino Martial Arts here. Only Karate, Tae Kwondo, fake KungFu's, and no Muay Thai.

                    I have no idea on FMA. Only Arnis.

                    but for me, Arnis is not a Filipino type of martial art

                    why????

                    the complete word of Arnis is "Arnis de Mano"

                    and..... and the word "de Mano" is not a Filipino word.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by HandtoHand
                      LOL sherwin just who did i fight naked...Sorry you must be getting your dreams and reality mixed up.
                      my friend, it is only an example. A sort of elementary explaination to understand more clearly.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by sherwinc
                        I really notice that FMA (Filipino Martial Arts) are very popular all over the world but here in Panay Philippines, theres no Filipino Martial Arts here. Only Karate, Tae Kwondo, fake KungFu's, and no Muay Thai.
                        from what I heard from Grandmaster Estalilla is that FMA are on a down trend nowadays in the philipines. Perhaps its due to their being other choices in the arts they can learn and maybe because they are tired of seeing the same stuff. Its still strong there but perhaps it will not be as popular later on.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by sercuerdas
                          steve,
                          is it possible for you to post some of the video of guro i. and mr. inay for us to see.
                          rob
                          Hello Sir -

                          Sorry, but at this time it is not possible. However, sometime in the near future the IBE may elect to put some of this footage on the official ISI website. If/when we do I will be sure to post back here that it is available for viewing.

                          Regards,

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by adacas
                            from what I heard from Grandmaster Estalilla is that FMA are on a down trend nowadays in the philipines. Perhaps its due to their being other choices in the arts they can learn and maybe because they are tired of seeing the same stuff. Its still strong there but perhaps it will not be as popular later on.
                            Just what i said, most of the people here in Philippines,
                            When they see Karate they called it Karate.
                            When they see KungFu they called it Karate.
                            When they see Muay Thai they called it AmericanKickBoxing
                            When they see Tae Kwon Do they called it Tae Kwon Do

                            May be when they see FMA they will call it also Karate

                            Note:
                            Here, all martial art that are not familiar is what they called Karate. I oftenly laugh when i frequently hear people called it Karate when they see KungFu in action.

                            another stupid phenomenon here is lots of KungFu School and KungFu Instructors here is FAKE!!!!

                            people do comment "It is that what they called KungFu???? its a stupid martial arts, maybe KungFu is good only for movies"

                            you see???? If it happened here, maybe it already happened all over the world.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I really notice that FMA (Filipino Martial Arts) are very popular all over the world but here in Panay Philippines, theres no Filipino Martial Arts here. Only Karate, Tae Kwondo, fake KungFu's, and no Muay Thai.

                              I have no idea on FMA. Only Arnis.

                              but for me, Arnis is not a Filipino type of martial art

                              why????

                              the complete word of Arnis is "Arnis de Mano"

                              and..... and the word "de Mano" is not a Filipino word.
                              There are FMAs in Panay, Grandmaster Lema (Lightning Scientific Arnis) was from Roxas or Cadiz I think.... but most good masters there are hiding...
                              Arnis, Dumog, Sikaran, filipino boxing......

                              Even on one of my trips to Borracay i was able to see fishermen who practiced a kind of empty hand fma (but they stoped when they saw I was watching)....

                              Many filipino words come from malay, spanish, english, chinese, arabic.....
                              arnis de mano are the terms used in the Philippines to describe most local weapon based arts (may have empty hands also).....
                              look at the numbers: malay roots: apat<->empat, lima<->lima, anim<->enam
                              spanish roots: uno<->uno, dos<->dos, tres<->tres, kwatro <-> cuatro,sinko<->cinco,sais<->seis




                              from what I heard from Grandmaster Estalilla is that FMA are on a down trend nowadays in the philipines. Perhaps its due to their being other choices in the arts they can learn and maybe because they are tired of seeing the same stuff. Its still strong there but perhaps it will not be as popular later on.

                              That is true.... there are many reasons some economic (people have to stop training), other because filipinos prefer foreign arts, tkd and bjj are very big now because of the movies, ufc....
                              Some people try to keep the arts alive.... commercial schools are mixing fmas with other foreign arts and this has more appeal wit the youth..... I think traditional fmas as they still exist today will disapear, but there will always be some hardcore traditionalists who will keep the old arts alive ......

                              May be when they see FMA they will call it also Karate
                              That's true, they even call silat and kuntao karate......


                              and yes shervinc there are also many fake kung fu teachers all over the world..... actually in my own experience there are more better kung fu teachers in the Philippines than in most countries I've been... with the exception of wc as I've seen also fake wc instructors there
                              .... pb is that not all kf instructors in the islands will teach you, you have to earn their trust or be recomanded....

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