teacher's fee in Manila?

[Jacklang]

hey guys
i have been asked to pay 20 to 40 USD for a hour for privite classes with one really famous master... finally price depends from how many hours i will take... it seems a lot!!!!

how much normally people pay? i don't want to use this guy name because i don't want to start any flame war but he is really famous and mentioned on this board as well

thanks
Jack

[krys]

1100-2200 pesos an hour in the Philippines ?!?!?
Know that some poor peoples work in the field 12 hours a day every day in some provinces for 2000 pesos a month..... even in Manila there are housemaids who work every day for 1200 pesos a month+food and lodging....

This is far too much... I don't really pay my master and my GM because we are brothers now but help them when they are in need.... They are well known in some circles and don't need to advertise because they are not looking for students....

Hmm.... if I think about how much I gave when I started it was something like 300 pesos (5.5 U$) for 2-3 sometines 4 hours of personal instruction.... it was like for a hilot you gave what you wanted....

There are some "famous" peoples you shouldn't train with at all as they only want your money and will teach you crap.... I fell for it 5-6 years ago......

[Largo_Mano]

That is way too much money!!! Krys is right. Just look on this board some instructors are offering full day seminars for $80 in the US. This guy is taking advantage of you.

[LabanB]

I had Phillipines based instructor offer to house, feed and teach me for only £120 per day, minimum of 10 days!! I declined!

Bill

[Guro Dave Gould]

You get what you pay for...

Hi guys,

I just wanted to give a quick reply on this one. It really does come down to the Fair Market Value for services rendered. If the Instructor is well received and the training offered is combat proven and effective how could you place a price on it??? Really what is your life worth???

This reminds me of a story that Punong Guro Edgar G. Sulite regaled me with while he was still residing in the Philippines teaching Private students before coming to the States (1989) to spread Lameco to the far corners of the world. At this time in the Philippines he (Edgar) was charging $65 U.S. an hour for Lameco and offered his services to Distinguished Pilipinos and tourist alike. Anyway the story goes like this; An Australian National flew to the Philippines in search of possible training with Punong Guro Sulite in Lameco Eskrima. On their initial introduction the man asked what Punong Guro Sulite charged for a 1 hour Private lesson in Lameco. Punong Guro Sulite replied $65 U.S. an hour, the Australian was flabergasted and stated that this was outrageous and was way too high for the Philippines.

Punong Guro Sulite looked the Aussie in the eyes and told him that this was what he charged and that he could accept his terms or train with some one else. With the Aussie still complaining about the price Punong Guro Sulite told the Aussie that he was fortunate that $65 U.S. was all that was required of him for the knowledge that he would receive, and continued on by telling the Aussie that he couldn`t afford to pay what Punong Guro Sulite himself had paid for his training as Punong Guro Sulite had paid for his training over many grueling years with his blood, sweat, tears and daily bruises. The price for progress comes high at times...

The moral of the story is that when we travel to the Philippines to train with Local Masters and Grand Masters we usually go into the journey blind as too what these people have endured in receiving the knowledge that they have amassed through numerous years of torment and pain in search for the definitive combative truths found in their Indigenous Warrior Arts. That we, I might add, go often times in vane of and in search of to serve our own selfish needs.

I suggest that you don`t totally obligate yourself until you train an hour with the Master giving him the respect that he deserves and pay him what he is asking for. After an hour if you are not satisfied with what you have received than move on to someone else, there are no shortage of Eskrima Masters in the Philippines. But if you allow only Money to govern with whom you choose to train you may miss out on some of the rare gems offering their services for hire. After all you will get only as much as you pay for... Go well guys, ciao.

Guro Dave Gould

https://www.LamecoEskrima.org

[krys]

FIrst of all I don't want to sound disrespectfull as this is not my intention.... but this still reminds me some bad experience I had...

I just wanted to give a quick reply on this one. It really does come down to the Fair Market Value for services rendered.

Well in a free market one should choose the best for the less.....

If the Instructor is well received and the training offered is combat proven and effective how could you place a price on it??? Really what is your life worth???

To answer this question I would also ask how much the instructor paid when he learned arnis in the Philippines?
From what I understand Tatang Illustrissimo didn't ask for money when he was teaching...... even now some gifted students learn the Illustrissimo system for free (although they help their instructor if he is in need)....

At this time in the Philippines he (Edgar) was charging $65 U.S. an hour for Lameco and offered his services to Distinguished Pilipinos and tourist alike.

I don't like to criticise the deceased but does that mean he didn't teach the "poor" filipinos?

Anyway the story goes like this; An Australian National flew to the Philippines in search of possible training with Punong Guro Sulite in Lameco Eskrima. On their initial introduction the man asked what Punong Guro Sulite charged for a 1 hour Private lesson in Lameco. Punong Guro Sulite replied $65 U.S. an hour, the Australian was flabergasted and stated that this was outrageous and was way too high for the Philippines.

I would have had the same attitude.... I wouldn't have any problems to afford it but that's more than one month salary for many filipinos...

Punong Guro Sulite looked the Aussie in the eyes and told him that this was what he charged and that he could accept his terms or train with some one else. With the Aussie still complaining about the price Punong Guro Sulite told the Aussie that he was fortunate that $65 U.S. was all that was required of him for the knowledge that he would receive, and continued on by telling the Aussie that he couldn`t afford to pay what Punong Guro Sulite himself had paid for his training as Punong Guro Sulite had paid for his training over many grueling years with his blood, sweat, tears and daily bruises. The price for progress comes high at times...

Well I have to tell you a story, I once went to Cebu to meet this very famous master (he is well known abroad).... first time I trained together with australian students and it was very cheap (150 pesos for 3 hours)....I decided to come back later the same year with my best friend and training partner because I got a scholarship and had two months free time before starting postgrad studies.... the atmosphere really changed as we were the only students with the GM, the master asked us 1500 pesos per hour..... reluctantly we agreed to pay..... at that point he showed us variations of what I saw first time with the australians, the little details that made the techniques really efficient.... because we paid more we would learn better techniques than those who didn't.......My friend soon realised he couldn't pay that much, I proposed to help him but he refused.... I talked about it to the "master" and he told me it didn't mater if my friend learned or not.... if I would stay with him for 4 months I could earn a lot and represent him in my country..... next day we were gone.....

Does this mean master should choose students according to their wealth rather than their skills? Well another Cebuano GM gave the right answer : "I don't ask money because I don't like to kiss a...es"......

I have right now two filipino instructors, one is a silat-escrima Grandmaster the other an Arnis master (his student)... they never call themselves masters or Grandmasters, just say they are students.... but in the muslim community they are known as such, and the average muslim filipino martial artist is not a joke as these are tough peoples.....

My Arnis master is very poor and cannot even eat chicken every day.... one day two american pilots with a bad attitude came and offered him dollars in order to learn..... He refused right away....
The first day I met silat Grandmaster I gave him more than usual: 500 pesos (9U$) for my first lesson, he needed the money to buy gas so that his wife could cook... on the way to the bus station we met a muslim filipino woman with a sick child, he gave her 300 pesos so that she could see a doctor and didn't ask me for more.....
Both have been through serious fight.... my GM has bullet and blade wounds, was in the war against the Marcos troops in Mindanao , one filipino sultan asks him to perform silat occasionaly.... but none of them is going to sell his knowledge to the most offering.....

The moral of the story is that when we travel to the Philippines to train with Local Masters and Grand Masters we usually go into the journey blind as too what these people have endured in receiving the knowledge that they have amassed through numerous years of torment and pain in search for the definitive combative truths found in their Indigenous Warrior Arts. That we, I might add, go often times in vane of and in search of to serve our own selfish needs.

Yes first time we travel to the Philippines we are blind.... but true Grandmasters are not interested in selling their art, their interest lies in teaching it to the right peoples, and when we meet them we see the light.....


[QUOTE]
I suggest that you don`t totally obligate yourself until you train an hour with the Master giving him the respect that he deserves and pay him what he is asking for. After an hour if you are not satisfied with what you have received than move on to someone else, there are no shortage of Eskrima Masters in the Philippines. But if you allow only Money to govern with whom you choose to train you may miss out on some of the rare gems offering their services for hire. After all you will get only as
much as you pay for... Go well guys, ciao.
[/QUOTE
]
Be carefull if you take one hour with this guy, he will probably try to impress you on the first class to keep you with him.... you should have a look around in order to meet other Grandmasters, maybe in the province if you have time.... there is a lot of escrima in Cebu and easy to find too...

Traditional masters don't ask much, but you have to pass a test or be recommanded ..... once accepted you will be asked for a single membership as a sign of respect to the (ancestor) Grandmasters: 1000-3000 pesos, and then you will be free to give what you want for a class (give between 100-500 pesos, I usually gave 300).....

Good luck pare....

[Guro Dave Gould]

Krys,

Interesting comments I thank you for your reply. First and Foremost let me begin by pointing out that in my initial post on this topic I was referring to $65 U.S. per 1 hour of “private” instruction. Punong Guro Sulite indeed did teach to less privileged Pilipinos while living in the Philippines. For those that could not afford Private instruction under his astute tutelage there were Group classes offered for a fraction of the cost. His Group classes were always filled to capacity and he took great pride in all of his Students one and all, well to do or other wise. As well Punong Guro Sulite also taught quite a few of his more dedicated students for free thereby rewarding their loyalty to him with this great gesture of kindness.

I feel that when you take Private Lessons from an Instructor you are paying for much more than the lesson being taught, you are also paying for the Instructors time. And in-as-much the Instructors time is worth something and is reflected in the price paid. After all keep in mind that the Instructor is trying to feed his family as well.

As for “Tatang” Illustrisimo it is true that a lot of the Senior Students directly under him were not charged anything for their time with him. However they all gave to him generously at various times when they had something extra to give. If Punong Guro Sulite had 50 pesos on him he would pull “Tatang” to the side and give him half which would put a huge smile on the face of “Tatang”.

Also when Punong Guro Sulite was training De Campo Uno-Dos-Tres Orehenal he would often pay for his training with Poultry (Eggs, Chicken, Milk). When he had Money he would pay and when he did not he would try and give something else of value. On the days that he had no money to pay with and nothing to give of value for his lessons he would show up at the house of GM Jose D. Caballero empty handed and state his predicament, either GM Caballero would allow him to train for free (very seldom) or he would turn him away until he had money to pay with. It was always left to the discretion of the Old Man.

I do understand where you are coming from Krys but at the same time I feel that a person knows what his services are worth and we owe it to these great Masters to give them respect and pay them what they feel that their time is worth for their services. Often time when shopping in a bargain basement at best one will find only find interesting items, very seldom in this environment will one find something really exceptional. Before making a journey to the Philippines for training research systems and Instructors well before obligating to anything. Once in country be respectful, use discretion and make good judgement, but above all enjoy the experience and soak up the culture.

Guro Dave Gould

https://www.LamecoEskrima.org

[krys]

Thanks for answering GD Gould.....
This clarifies your earlier message concerning the teachings of PG Edgar Sulite....

From my discussions with ofther filipino martial artists traditionally one gave what he wanted to learn with a Grandmaster.... Grandmasters didn't take anybody as a student but once you were accepted it was like with hilots, you gave what you wanted, put it usually in the GMs bag and he didn't look at it in front of you......
money matters were not discussed....

There weren't that many public classes, instruction was mostly 1-1, sometimes you and your siblings..... masters or GMs usually came to your house (or you went to their place) and gave you instruction, it was never in public places....

For westerners 500 pesos is nothing but in the Philippines it is a fair amount of money for 2 hours work..... and 20-40 dollars an hour is hardly imaginable for most of them .... when one goes abroad he has to think in terms of relative cost, ie the cost relative to the consumption power in that coutry.......I take personal instruction in Wing Chun with a master in the UK for 40U$ an hour and this is a fair price, If I decided to take kenjutsu instruction while I stay in Japan it would cost at least 300U$ an hour and that would also be a fair price for that country...

Actually when I was talking about 5-9 U$ it is for 2-4 hours of private instruction with one of the last muslim Grandmasters of the deep south....
Muslim filipinos have other customs than christian filipinos... martial arts are usually taught in a close circle and their Masters/GMs want to keep low profiles.....
..... To be instructed by my guro meant becoming part of his brotherhood/clan and one cannot really charge his brother to learn how to defend his life ....... Anyway my GM knows that I will help him should he have any monetary problems ....

Regards.