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Ive been getting pretty bored lately with FMA. (IM really referring to double sticks here) I train @ a school thats a mix of FMA/ Muay Thai/ Silat/ and JKD. My main interests are in MT. Im starting to wonder if my FMA training is worthless. My instructor says that weapons training helps your empty hand training. I beleive that, but dont know to what extent. Whats your take on that concept. Not from what you've read, but what you've done/ seen. It just keeps going through my head, "when will I ever be walking down the road with these 2 sticks" bla bla bla... Also, if you've got a story of when FMA actually saved your ass, I would dig hearing it. Perhaps it would inspire me...
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Your reaction time and precision increases with weapons training.I would keep at it but if its a chore train some other weapons.Bladed weapons(live blades) will help you allertness after all there is no room for mistakes! -
I had a female student, mother of three who mainly needed a means of exercise. So, she started taking Kuntaw . She wasn't interested in sparring or weapons or going for the belts, just wanted a change of routine. In my beginner classes we teach a number of hand, foot, knee drills and she found that to be stimulating. As time went by, she sat and watched the sparring done at the other end of our studio. After 6 months she said she might want to give it a try. We never pushed her to that end only gave her what she wanted.Originally posted by cfr
There was a Black Belt female who happened to be at the club that day and she agreed to be this ladies partner. The BB lady was top rated Michigan Tournament fighter and forms competitor for 4 years. She agreed to take it easy. When the fight started the lady held her own , not delivering any attacks of her own. She was just defending against the BB.
The BB fighter was starting to get frustrated cause she couldn't land an attack. So, she went a little harder. The lady who only trained in the drills and basics kept her at bay the entire time. The only thing she had no defense for was a drop sweep. That's what ended the match. She was unhurt, but decided she wanted to spar more often. The BB was one of her instructors and made the comment that she found it very hard to get any combinations to work cause the lady was always prepared for additional attacks. We attributed that scenerio to her knowledge of flow drills.
The lady went on to obtain green belt before her husband took her out of class. Hmmm, I still wonder why.Comment
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Yeah, I know what you mean. I've been involved with the martial arts for about 10 years now...and I know what it's like to suffer burnout by doing something over and over again. But, the FMA's are incredibly important for one's fighting arsenal. Yes, I'll admit, the fancy-shmancy self-perfection training drills in Arnis/Escrima (Sinawali, Sumbrada, Isa Tama, Tapi-Tapi, etc.) seem worthless. I teach Arnis/Escrima at Seton Hall University to the Filipino League at Seton Hall. Virtually every training session, there is some guy or girl who comes up to me asking, "When will I ever need this?"
To answer your question, yes, the drills in the FMA's will increase your hand-eye coordination, footwork, balance, body mechanics, and speed. I know my Boxing has greatly improved since I started incorporating these drills into my training. However, I'll be the first to admit that many of the JKD/Kali schools in the USA simply see the FMA's as a way to increase one's physical attributes...and they fail to address the functional use of the art in real-life situations. A lot of the FMA's that I see in JKD/Kali schools nowadays are nothing more than just drills. However, you need MORE than drills to fully grasp the efficiency of the FMA's. After all, the FMA's are, in and of themselves, an effective fighting system.
The FMA's are currently an important part of the combatives training of most law enforcement agencies as well as military personell. The important thing to remember when training is to stick to the basics and try to find someone who teaches the FMA's as a fighting art stripped to the bare fighting essentials AND who can also teach you these fantastic self-perfection drills as well. Combined, you have a FMA background that is tough to beat which will serve as an excellent fighting system in any real encounter.
If you feel that you want to make your FMA training more street-effective and functional, try focusing on the basic strikes, counters, and disarms. In fights, all that fancy stuff is thrown out the window. Focus on the simplest-of-simple strikes as well as the simplest counters. Also, try to incorporate full-contact weapons sparring (stick, knife) into your training. Apply the tactics in Arnis to your Muay Thai, and you'll see how these arts benefit you.
Happy Training!Comment
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It could be worse, you could be a TKD student practicing 2 steps/1 steps over and over and over never knowing they don't work on the street.Originally posted by cfr
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From my experience, if you want to train muay Thai, there's no better way than to train muay Thai. I'm not saying FMA is "worthless". But I'm saying if you're training an hour of FMA and thinking you're helping your MT, I'm saying that that hour would have been better spent in the MT gym. I trained MT and FMA at the same time about 13 years ago, so I had the exact same overlap as you. FMA did not help my MT at all from what I could tell. That's not to say that for other people, their FMA doesn't help their MT, but I think the fact that you're asking this question means you should be honest with yourself and realize you're not seeing any benefit from double-stick work, either.Originally posted by cfr
I'm back to training FMA, but this time emphasizing what I might need in a realistic defensive situation. Strictly knife at the moment, and may eventually move up to short stick (about the size of a 6C maglite, say). I personally won't ever be carrying a long stick, much less two, so don't plan to train that. Ironically, in this case, I find the MT significantly helps my FMA! Not for strict knife-on-knife work where we're just using the blade, but once we start adding empty hand work into knife defense (in other words, more realistic knife work, empty hand vs knife, etc.), MT timing, power, and some of the strikes are very applicable.Comment
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I'm taking FMA because of the blade work and it's one of the best. My question is when is blade work part of the curriculum and are you qualified (age)? If you dont qualify, then I would leave it for now and focus on Muay Thai and grappling if you have the time.Comment
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Originally posted by warriors13
I think blades are introduced in our next phase which I will be a part of in probably 2 - 4 months.Comment
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I have a question for you guys: How long did you guys have to take FMA for before the guru allowed you to spar?
After three months of taking it, all I ever did in my class was drills during the the first bit of the class, and for the rest of the class doing "defenses" against certain angle strikes, armed and unarmed. Over 90% of all the class time spent so far was in learning lots of fancy variations in the things you can do for defending against strike 1 and a few for strike 2.Comment
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Sparring happens when you have a good understanding of all those defenses you are training for. In my classes, I don't allow sparring til a student can block attacks delivered to him without telling him" I'm striking with my right hand downward" And when they can throw a strike without breaking someone's nose while in practice. In otyher words- beginners do not spar until they understand the weapons they have and what their opponent can use. For their safety and my liabilityhis has to be. But < I look at it this way,in TKD you practice 1 and 2 steps with your opponent telling you where the attack is coming from. In my class , after 2 weeks your partner attacks where ever and you learn to percieve the attack and counter. This is more like real life and how far you take it is up to how well you listened in class.Originally posted by 741
When a student can do this, then they are allowed to sparr. I don't want loose cannons running around, and those who just want to hurt people have impatient hearts.Comment
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The one HUGE downfall (IMO) to the school I go to is how long it takes to spar. After about a year we begin light sparring/ unscripted training. I think about another year till we really go for it. I still have a tough time with this one. But it was either that or katas/ goofy SD techs/ punching the air at the other local schools.Originally posted by 741Comment
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741, There may be several factors here, involved. Burnouts do occur in FMA, the most common reason is that in "most true" FMA there are rarely belt systems in place, and often taught with less structure. Many people without the blackbelt carrot or clearly defined goal or curriculum lose sight of what the goal "should" be, a way of life. It is hard for a lot of people to fathom training for the sake of just training. At my gym I have a core group that has been there for years, newbies, either sink or swim quick and it is easy to see who will last. Even the core group goes through these plateaus but it's funny because just a slight variation can seemingly flick on a light in their head. try some reaction type street drills, try some variations on sparring, and if your FMA has zero empty hands than I suspect that you are missing out, because quality FMA do have the empty hand aspect, and if all your empty hand training is hand drills only, than bring it up with your instructor, sadly due to the way FMA are taught at seminars across the country (Not being specific at all here) there are some instructors out there who actually do not even know themselves the applications. If your are doing empty hands than re-evaluate the circumstances of your training. Try drills against, a streetfighting attack, than maybe a grappler who attempts to shoot or clinch, than a MT type attack. As to will it help your MT, I think the problems in the past that both you and Mr. Talmadge may have had has more to do with the way your FMA is being taught I was always taught the connection of hand and blade growing up, and that had a strong tie the boxing aspect. But whether I throw a jab, cross, hook, shear, or parry FMA is in everything I do, it is a flavor you can feel it, the way you hunt for angles, push pull, check or off balance, and espcially in the mechanics of the feet. There are many MT guys and even more Yaw Yan guys who can attest to it's effectiveness as a training partner to the stand up game. Good luck, change it up, and have fun.
Aloha nui!Comment
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Ray Floro saw this thread yesterday and showed me some weapons-to-empty-hand tie-in. So I think you're right, it's a matter of how it's being taught. But when he showed me, I saw the tie-in immediately. I think if your double-stick has an empty-hand tie-in, you'll see it.Originally posted by haumana2000
As far as sparring, it varies from style to style and even instructor to instructor, from what I've seen. Years ago, when I trained serrada, my instructor really never had us spar, just did flow drills, lock and block, etc. The serrada school a few miles away sparred, though I don't know the details of when new students were introduced to it. I talked to a Sayoc instructor who said he doesn't do much sparring in his class, but they do combative, goal-oriented drills that to some extent take its place and add in a different aspect of realism (e.g., good guy has to get from point A to point B, bad guy has to stop him, so instead of classic tactical measured-and-controlled sparring, you get one guy trying to blast/cut his way through the other and run). In Ray Floro's lineage of kali illustrisimo, students spar from the first day, or at least that was my experience. It's a training methodology that has always worked very well for me throughout my years of training: show some moves and concepts, do some drills to reinforce, then spar it all out at the end of class. You get exactly the same methodology in, say, BJJ, again right from the first day. Obviously, different students respond to different methodologies; I was thrilled to find a FMA that used the one that's always worked best for me.
JoeComment
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Kudos Joe, Glad to hear it. One of my favorite drills for empty hands, is as I mentioned before to do scenario attack drills, where the attacker has to play one of several roles, he may play a puncher kicker or grappler and may even have a blade hidden that comes in to play. Every month I may have a person working on a specific technique or attribute, something as simple as focusing on knees, elboes, or boxing. Or maybe finishing on a takedown and finish. It depends, after a few times of doing it, I see what habits they have, and either try to change it up, or build on it according to how they do. For instance some guys feel that every confrontation has to end in some devastating lock or break with "photo-shoot finish". they become so fixated on it, that they bypass many opportunities to finish with a simple hand attack or strike. So we try to change their game to focus on these opportunities.Comment
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So I found out last night that I start knife training in my next phase. Probably 2-4 months from now. Very motivating.
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