Fighting and danger in the streets of Manila

[sherwinc]

Are you saying kung fu doesn't work, or it's not as inviencable as you tries to lead us to believe?

how can a kungfu will work if you doesnt know your opponent's companions????

its expecting unexpected......

even the cops, or police are on their side........

and besides, many of them attack you unexpected......

then how about if your wife or your girlfriend is on your side, then they will attack your wife?????

plus.... a hidden INDIAN PANA or INDIAN TARGET suddenly hit and inject your ass.....

[darrianation]

how can a kungfu will work if you doesnt know your opponent's companions????

its expecting unexpected......

even the cops, or police are on their side........

and besides, many of them attack you unexpected......

then how about if your wife or your girlfriend is on your side, then they will attack your wife?????

plus.... a hidden INDIAN PANA or INDIAN TARGET suddenly hit and inject your ass.....

So, if I am reading what you are saying correctly, you are saying that Kung Fu only teaches defense against expected and predictable attacks, and only against one opponent. Hey that's what I have been saying for years.

[krys]

Kung Fu only teaches defense against expected and predictable attacks, and only against one opponent. Hey that's what I have been saying for years.

Have a look at:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/italy/story/0,12576,1061765,00.html

In scotland we had a similar story with a praying mantis master (former owner of the loon fung restaurant) who was attacked by 3 triads armed with hatchets, he broke two of the triads arms but couldn't avoid getting cut by the third.. he managed to break his arm too and was able to reduce the flow of blood until reaching hospital.

[darrianation]

Have a look at:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/italy/story/0,12576,1061765,00.html

In scotland we had a similar story with a praying mantis master (former owner of the loon fung restaurant) who was attacked by 3 triads armed with hatchets, he broke two of the triads arms but couldn't avoid getting cut by the third.. he managed to break his arm too and was able to reduce the flow of blood until reaching hospital.

Cool story, those guys got what they deserved. How Many KF practitioners can do that, especially praying mantis guys? Anyway don't let ancedotal stuff like this make you think that everyone can do this.

Here are some good self-defense stories, have fun.

http://www.tsra.com/selfdfns.htm

[yentao]

how can a kungfu will work if you doesnt know your opponent's companions????

its expecting unexpected......

even the cops, or police are on their side........

and besides, many of them attack you unexpected......

then how about if your wife or your girlfriend is on your side, then they will attack your wife?????

plus.... a hidden INDIAN PANA or INDIAN TARGET suddenly hit and inject your ass.....

Sounds like you never get to use kung fu in a fight after all. Did you got to fight before? In a real fight it doesn't matter whcih for you use. You just fight and do what you want. As a NCK practitioner my neuro memory NCK. When you got to a fighting situation this what comes to action, it became natural for you to act like this right a way. Same with other MA's. If someone attack you without a reason, it is clear self defense you may kill them right a away if you want but don't chase them if they run. That depends in influence as well. If the robber sak for money give it, then go back for them. That is why we prefer here using credit cards than money and we prevent dangerous places as possible. But if you got to fight, you fight and do your best. Train. Nothing ineffective when you are good at it.

[yentao]

how can a kungfu will work if you doesnt know your opponent's companions????

its expecting unexpected......

even the cops, or police are on their side........

and besides, many of them attack you unexpected......

then how about if your wife or your girlfriend is on your side, then they will attack your wife?????

plus.... a hidden INDIAN PANA or INDIAN TARGET suddenly hit and inject your ass.....

You dont have to worry much about the cop it won't shoot you. You can make a run for it. Nobody is too stupid to attack someoen without reason. Unless you are chinito or look rich and decent. But if you are look decent and chinito two reasons why they won't hit by the cops, because they were afraid that you'll be coming back for them with plenty of case or goons. Squaters don't they got nothing to lose so they will hit you. Don't bring you girl around dark and empty streets. I got bad experience on it. Just the time I didn't bring any weapon to helped me.

[yentao]

So, if I am reading what you are saying correctly, you are saying that Kung Fu only teaches defense against expected and predictable attacks, and only against one opponent. Hey that's what I have been saying for years.

Guess you are wrong. Alertness teach you to become defensive against unexpected attacks. Any martial artists that was taught not to be alert? None right? I don't understand how a martial artist become a true one without knowing about alertness. Maybe MC Dojo guys.

[krys]

You dont have to worry much about the cop it won't shoot you. You can make a run for it. Nobody is too stupid to attack someoen without reason.

Some cops do if they are drunk , actually many of them are not really good at shooting because they never train. They get a limited amount of bullets and if they use all of those they have to pay for new ones.

[Beginner]

Some cops do if they are drunk , actually many of them are not really good at shooting because they never train. They get a limited amount of bullets and if they use all of those they have to pay for new ones.

I definitely agree! I always make sure I go to the shooting range once every month & I've seen one too many evidences that a lot (not all) of cops back home are not trained well. We had to help one cop disassemble his .45 semi-auto because you can't even cock it. When we got it stripped, the railing on the frame was rusted so bad, it can't slide anymore! Another cop, kept on complaining how his .38 revolver was inaccurate. I'm serious, he did not have one group of 2 shots. When we tried it out, it was perfect!

You're also right about the economics of cops back home. But that's not an excuse not to train. You wanna be a cop, then be the best in what you do - train & perfect your skills.

[krys]

You're also right about the economics of cops back home. But that's not an excuse not to train. You wanna be a cop, then be the best in what you do - train & perfect your skills.

Actually some cops even pawn or sell their guns.... I heard a few years ago 40% live in shanties. I think if they got better paid many wouldn't turn criminal, or resort to kotong activities. They should also get a reasonable amount of bullets, health benefits and free legal assistance if they get into troubles. Some arrive late at crime scenes because they don't have enough amunition, poor weaponry and if they get injured or charged nearly no help from the government.

[Beginner]

Actually some cops even pawn or sell their guns.... I heard a few years ago 40% live in shanties. I think if they got better paid many wouldn't turn criminal, or resort to kotong activities. They should also get a reasonable amount of bullets, health benefits and free legal assistance if they get into troubles. Some arrive late at crime scenes because they don't have enough amunition, poor weaponry and if they get injured or charged nearly no help from the government.

Well, not 40%; I'm sure only a very small percentage do. Shanties are the makeshift houses built by squatters & I doubt if cops who lived in these houses wouldn't move out when they start to earn a decent living. But a lot of them are very poor.

I personally know for a fact that some cops do sell guns. These aren't their own but ones they've either confiscated or acquired through some other means. Or it could have been their old gun. The more crafty cops would be able to get away w/ not having to surrender their old guns once new models are issued. As for those who pawn their guns, I haven't heard of any - but it doesn't mean it never happened - almost anything's possible in the Philippines.

Cops arrive late at crime scenes out of their own laziness. Cops in the Phil. could respond as fast as cops in the US but they just choose not to. If there is something in it for them, they’re gonna be there. But if it were a legitimate call for assistance, they will kill time. Of course we still have to argue that the financial support is still not enough. But again, you wanna be a cop? Then go be a good one. In the first place, they went into cop training knowing the pay sucks & a lot of them are actually aiming to be like one of the veteran corrupt cops.

This is the reason a lot of Filipinos had to be tough back home. If the police can’t protect my loved ones & I, then I’m sure gonna protect them myself by any means

[krys]

Yup, my info was wrong, not 40% of all cops but those living in metro Manila.... a 98 a study showed that 45% of the cops living in metro manila stayed in squatter areas http://aspin.asu.edu/hpn/archives/Oct98/0119.html think they are living in better places in the province as lodging and food is far cheaper and can also resort to small scale farming.

The police official I used to visit in Mindanao was also in the money lending business.
He was quite honest and asked only for 5% monthly instead of the usual 5/6, it was very profitable and many peoples came to seek his aid, among them policemen. He offered to give me a gun one of his former men (this was after his retirement) just lost to him because he wasn't able to pay back the money.... Peoples are sometimes desesperate when it comes to medical bills and other important expenses, one woman teacher there even pawned her teacher's licence...

& a lot of them are actually aiming to be like one of the veteran corrupt cops.

Amazing the kind of cars you see at Camp Crame, one wonders how they can buy those and live in posh villages...

Here is a good cop:

http://beta.inq7.net/metro/index.php?index=1&story_id=1703

[Beginner]

Yup, my info was wrong, not 40% of all cops but those living in metro Manila.... a 98 a study showed that 45% of the cops living in metro manila stayed in squatter areas http://aspin.asu.edu/hpn/archives/Oct98/0119.html think they are living in better places in the province as lodging and food is far cheaper and can also resort to small scale farming.

That figure sounds better. But then again, the line "stayed in squatter areas" is pretty much misleading. They maybe staying in the squatter areas but they can living in a not-so-squatter-like house. If you know what I mean.

First time I heard of cops pawning their guns, though. Or maybe I've heard about it but never really gave much interest on it. And yes, those cars in Crame are crazy! Like I said, almost anything is possible in the Philippines.

But that story on the hero cop. He's one of the few cops there who prove to us that there is still a chance for things to get better.

[Beginner]

Oh, and being that the article was written during the Estrada administration, I have serious doubts to its accuracy... It's a political statement more than anything.

[Diego_vega]

This is how rich people (brothers at that) fight in the PHilippines. Normally, in most countries of the world, they would just arrest thugs who shoot up public places. Not in the Philippines and especially not in the provinces where powerful families still control most facets of life. BTW, this family, I believe is the same one who lost a provincial governor's election in another part of the PHilippines, then accused the winner (a woman, a former journalist, who suffers from polio and walks with the aid of crutches) of terrorism:

Two brothers in gunfight
Updated 06:36pm (Mla time) Sept 05, 2004
By Franklin Caliguid
Inquirer News Service
BUTUAN CITY, Agusan del Norte, Philippines -- Local authorities here are looking for ways to patch up differences between two brothers who were involved in a gunfight in a busy commercial district here on Thursday evening.
Senior Superintendent Efren Anggo, city police chief, said they were trying to work a reconciliation between Johnny and Lorencio Dy to prevent a possible bloodbath.
Anggo said the brothers, sons of a rich trader engaged in construction, export and real state business, are known to maintain private armies.
Mayor Democrito Plaza has already intervened to prevent the situation from worsening.
Prior to the gunfight, Lorencio allegedly ransacked a family owned hardware store being managed by Johnny.
Johnny, who was slightly wounded in the stomach during the gunfight, said the incident was sparked by a long-running family feud.