Escrima And Krabi Krabong

[Tee Sok]

Hello everyone. I don't practice escrima but I know what it is about and I read some books about it. My question: do you think Krabi Krabong is a valid system as well? I saw and read about it only and it seemed simple and straight forward (looked more straight forward than escrima to me) and quite effective. I also like the fact that they combine kicking techniques with stick techniques. Do escrima styles do that too?

Another thing: has anyone seen the William Friedklin movie "Hunted"? It has very good knife fighting scenes in it (first time I see realistic knife fighting on screen) and I read that an escrima master did the fighting coreography.

Thanks and sorry if the Krabi subject has been brought before.

[MAMike]

Hi Tee Sok,

the fighting scenes in "The Hunted" where choreographed from the Sayoc Kali Instructors. More info you'll find at Sayoc Kali Website.

Kicking techniques at escrima. Yes, there're a few kicking techniques in some styles of Kali, Arnis and Eskrima. But from the aspect of blade orientation, high kicks for example, are not effective. Mostly you'll find the oblique kick as an immobilizing tool in close quarter range.

Krabi Krabong. Krabi Krabong is a simple but effective thai martial art. Like the Buddhaiswan Institute of swordmanship it teach's there're just four drills (3, 8, 7 and 9 count). You can use these drills with each Krabi Krabong weapon like the daab (sword), plong (long stick), ngau or hawk....
The footwork in KK allows the practioner to develope a very effective forward pressure. Of course you use your other weapons (fists, ellbows, knee etc.). For this there is a little part of Muay Boran (traditional Muay Thai) at the Krabi Krabong curriculum.

If there're any other questions, don't be hesitate to ask.

Regards, Mike

P.S.: Tee Sok means ellbow technique. Do you learn Muay Thai?

[Crucible]

Hi Tee Sok,
Some escrimadors have actually integrated krabi krabong into thier curiculum. You might want to check out http://www.dogbrothers.com/ .
They have DVD and video on full contact Krabi Krabong with fight footage.

[Tee Sok]

Hi Tee Sok,

the fighting scenes in "The Hunted" where choreographed from the Sayoc Kali Instructors. More info you'll find at Sayoc Kali Website.

Kicking techniques at escrima. Yes, there're a few kicking techniques in some styles of Kali, Arnis and Eskrima. But from the aspect of blade orientation, high kicks for example, are not effective. Mostly you'll find the oblique kick as an immobilizing tool in close quarter range.

Krabi Krabong. Krabi Krabong is a simple but effective thai martial art. Like the Buddhaiswan Institute of swordmanship it teach's there're just four drills (3, 8, 7 and 9 count). You can use these drills with each Krabi Krabong weapon like the daab (sword), plong (long stick), ngau or hawk....
The footwork in KK allows the practioner to develope a very effective forward pressure. Of course you use your other weapons (fists, ellbows, knee etc.). For this there is a little part of Muay Boran (traditional Muay Thai) at the Krabi Krabong curriculum.

If there're any other questions, don't be hesitate to ask.

Regards, Mike

P.S.: Tee Sok means ellbow technique. Do you learn Muay Thai?

Hello Mike, and thanks for your explanations. I knew that Krabi Krabong incorporates Muay Boran, but I thought that when armed, one would use only a front kick or a low kick and that knees and elbows would be used only in case one drops the stick, sword......
Yes, I studied Muay Boran for a short period in a IMBA(International Muay Boran Academy) school in Italy before I moved; the styles I study are Wing Chun and boxing, but I am really interested in Krabi Krabong and in knife fighting. My instructor teaches southern Italy knife fighting but unfortunately he doesn't know Krabi Krabong.
Thanks again Mike. And thanks for your reply too, Crucible.

[MAMike]

Hi Tee Sok,

where are you currently located? Maybe i can help you to find an instructor for Krabi Krabong. I don't like the IMBA and Marco de Cesaris, because he never learned real Muay Boran. He works together with Master Woody (Chinawut Sirisomphand) and he doesn't learn the real Muay Boran or Krabi Krabong, too. You should watch for a certified instructor in Muay Thai or a original Arjan from the Buddhaiswan (Bangkok) or any other School from thailand which is allow to teach this styles. More infos you should get from the Sports Authority of Thailand.

The most misunderstanded thing in Muay Boran is, that the self-made-kru's think muay boran are only the Mae Mai and Look Mai techniques. But Muay Boran is also a more deeper training methodic and an advanced footwork....

Greetz, Mike

[MAMike]

Hi Tee Sok,
Some escrimadors have actually integrated krabi krabong into thier curiculum. You might want to check out http://www.dogbrothers.com/ .
They have DVD and video on full contact Krabi Krabong with fight footage.

They practice Krabi Krabong since many many years. Arjan Alan "Salty Dog" Sanford brought it in. Since three years i think it's a part of the Dog Brother Martial Arts System, which is not only an eskrima style. Its the style of many styles and made for real contact stickfighting.

Greetz, Mike

[Tee Sok]

Hi Tee Sok,

where are you currently located? Maybe i can help you to find an instructor for Krabi Krabong. I don't like the IMBA and Marco de Cesaris, because he never learned real Muay Boran. He works together with Master Woody (Chinawut Sirisomphand) and he doesn't learn the real Muay Boran or Krabi Krabong, too. You should watch for a certified instructor in Muay Thai or a original Arjan from the Buddhaiswan (Bangkok) or any other School from thailand which is allow to teach this styles. More infos you should get from the Sports Authority of Thailand.

The most misunderstanded thing in Muay Boran is, that the self-made-kru's think muay boran are only the Mae Mai and Look Mai techniques. But Muay Boran is also a more deeper training methodic and an advanced footwork....

Greetz, Mike

Well thanks again Mike! Actually I am working in Thailand right now (in Samutsakorn, about 15 km from BKK) but unfortunately I have no time to go find a training place or to train (I train 1-2 hours in the morning by myself), and when I have free time I go to travel around the country....anyway, I will go home next week. I live in Luxemburg now(where I was born), but probably I will go back in Italy (where there is a Krabi Krabong school in Milan). But in Luxemburg the martial scene really sucks! And I found out about Marco De Cesaris and I am glad I went away from the IMBA. I read an interview with master Yodtong and it kinda opened my eyes about the Muay Boran situation in Italy......
Cheers!

[rabidpanda]

I've also heard that the Dog Brothers are pretty much crippled because of their style. I could be wrong.

I'm trying to figure out why you'd put your arteries out for someone to hack at? That's what I call a kick.

Kicks, in my opinion are, way too commited even for a snap kick.

[Crucible]

I've also heard that the Dog Brothers are pretty much crippled because of their style. I could be wrong.

Maybe, but I could name several well-respected masters and grandmasters that'll proudly show where they took a knife to the ribs or where cacoy or someone else knocked out thier teeth. What they're doing isn't that diffrent from what our FMA elders have done(and still do), they've just have thier own take on it.

I'm trying to figure out why you'd put your arteries out for someone to hack at? That's what I call a kick.
Kicks, in my opinion are, way too commited even for a snap kick

You should check out thier fight footage, you might be surprised. They time the kicks so that you have a choice between taking a power blow to the head, or a hard kick to the ribs. Most of the people you'll see in the tapes opt to go for blocking the stick strike and end up getting dropped by the kick. My understanding is that when salty dog first showed up doing krabi they started laughing because of how it looked..... well, they stopped laughing soon after .

[Crucible]

Nice frog

[rabidpanda]

Well at my training we do kicking but it's limited to the lower hemisphere. Just like you describe. Still seems too dangerous. Survival is different than sport.

[Tee Sok]

Buddhai Swan Institute

Thanks for the very interesting replies! I found out about the Buddhai Swan institute, but unfortunately it is located in Ayuthaya, quite far from where I live. I read on an old post that if you want to learn Krabi Krabong there, you have to be introduced by a thai government/military authority. Well, I have friends here, but none from the military/government authority. Is it still possible for a farang to go there and learn without such connections?? Thank you very much once again!

[george stando]

Yes, you can go train at the buddhai sawan or whatever remains of it(ayuttha is where the original temple is, nong kam is where kk school is). The older master Samai died and left it in the hands of his son and I have heard the teaching has gone down hill. In the old days, it was best to go with a recommendation of someone who trained there or from the military. I trained with some of the students of Samai who were good, there are many other krabi krabong schools and was lucky to have met someone from the US who was training and researching all the surviving methods for a book. You can email Vincent Giordano(US) or Tony Moore(UK). Tony Moore has all alot of info on the current status of the Buddhai Sawan and Vincent is a bible of info on training and learning all the thai martial arts. Tony's website is http://www.suryothai.addr.com. Vincent can be reached at blackdiamondcobra@yahoo.com. Both men are great at Krabi Krabong and invaluable resources.Vincent as well is highly skilled in the filipino ma as well and can offer insights there.

[Tee Sok]

Thanks a lot.

[chalambok]

Tee Sok, if you get up Chiang Mai way, you should check out Pedro Villalobos' Ancient Thai Arts Academy. His address and telephone # have been posted in the thai boxing and kickboxing forums several times. I will look again and if I find them will post them here or send them to you. It is my belief, although I am out-of-date as to the situation currently in Thailand, that the school in Nong Kam (next to SE Asian University on Phetkasem Road, air bus 5) is still open; also that one of the sons is teaching for Mr Villalobos in Chiang Mai.