Marine Corps history and the Filipino Martial Arts

[koto_ryu]

Cool little thing I learned today from a buddy of mine who's working on being an instructor in DeCuerdas Eskrima.

If it wasn't for the Phillipines and the skill they had with knives back then, the Marine Corps would have never gotten their nickname "Leatherneck". Back in the day when the Marines were in the Phillipines doing what we do best (and no, not boozing it up, chasing tail, and punching each other. Making war goddammit!) a lot of them were getting sliced up by the escrimadors out there before they could even shoot, as one of their favorite targets was the throat. So Marines developed the leather neckguard that they soon added to their uniforms down there, hence the new nickname "Leatherneck."

Pretty cool

[chalambok]

As addendum to Koto Ryu's history, it was at this time the United States military forces necessarily changed their sidearm from the .38-caliber revolver to the Colt .45 Automatic Pistol.

[koto_ryu]

As addendum to Koto Ryu's history, it was at this time the United States military forces necessarily changed their sidearm from the .38-caliber revolver to the Colt .45 Automatic Pistol.

Yep, forgot about that Because some of the escrimadors would take the shot from the .38 and still slice the shooter to ribbons while mortally wounded. The .45, however, evened up the odds quite nicely

[Crucible]

Cool little thing I learned today from a buddy of mine who's working on being an instructor in DeCuerdas Eskrima.

If it wasn't for the Phillipines and the skill they had with knives back then, the Marine Corps would have never gotten their nickname "Leatherneck". Back in the day when the Marines were in the Phillipines doing what we do best (and no, not boozing it up, chasing tail, and punching each other. Making war goddammit!) a lot of them were getting sliced up by the escrimadors out there before they could even shoot, as one of their favorite targets was the throat. So Marines developed the leather neckguard that they soon added to their uniforms down there, hence the new nickname "Leatherneck."

Pretty cool

I wonder how acurate this is? I was told the same thing for many years and was sharing it with friends when just recently one of the my early FMA influences stopped me and informed me that the term leatherneck actually predated the American pressence in the P.I.. Marine sources seem to state the same thing. Perhaps the collar was removed 1872-75 and was reinstated during the marines tour in the southern P.I.? Anybody have any period references on the matter? Any marines in the house?

Check these out,

( from http://www.chinamarines.com/docs/intro.htm )
When the winds of unrest stirred the American colonies to spawn revolution against the tyranny of King George of England it fell upon the militia, a loose knit army of farmers and settlers under the leadership of George Washington, to defeat the British Red Coats and create a new nation. Armed ships set sail to fight the British fleet at sea. There arose a need for a fighting force separate from the crews who sailed the ships and manned the cannons. The Continental Congress, addressing the problem, authorized the formation of a military force to fill the need. An so, the word went out: "FIND A FEW GOOD MEN AND CALL THEM MARINES!" Thus on 10 November 1775, the Continental Marines became the first military organization authorized by congregational action. In those days of wooden sailing ships, the Continental Marines kept order at sea and maintained internal security on board ship. In combat they manned the fighting tops, sniping at gun crews on enemy ships. On deck they led boarding parties in close action and repelled enemy boarding parties. These Marines earned the nickname "Leatherneck." The time honored sobriquet was derived from the thick leather stock worn around the neck to protect the Marine from the decapitating slash of an enemy's cutlass.

(from http://usmilitary.about.com/od/marines/l/bllegends.htm )

Now accepted by Webster as a synonym for Marine, the term "Leatherneck" was derived from a leather stock once worn around the neck by both American and British Marines--and soldiers also. Beginning in 1798, "one stock of black leather and clasp" was issued to each U. S. Marine annually.

This stiff leather collar, fastened by two buckles at the back, measured nearly three and a half inches high, and was practical only for full-dress wear. It could hardly be worn in battle as it prevented the neck movement necessary for sighting along a barrel. It supposedly improved military bearing, by forcing the chin high, although General George F. Elliott, recalling its use after the Civil War, said it made the wearers appear "like geese looking for rain."

The stock was dropped as an article of Marine uniform in 1872, after surviving through the uniform changes of 1833, 1839, and 1859. But by then it was a part of American vocabulary, a word preserved, like so many words, beyond its original meaning

( from an Etymology site)
Leatherneck
The chief dispute over the origin of this slang term for a marine is whether in originated in the Royal Marines or the U.S. Marines. The term is a reference to the high, leather collars that were once a part of marines' uniforms in both countries. Although Mencken and Morris recount the tale that British sailors called marines leathernecks not because of their collars, but because marines washed only their faces, omitting the rest of their bodies, resulting in an unwashed and leathery neck.

Mencken comes squarely down on the British-origin side, stating that the term crossed the Atlantic during the First World War. He may be right about the British origin, but his dates are clearly wrong. Lighter's earliest American cite is from 1907, too early for the WWI crossing. The earliest unambiguous cite is a reference to the Royal Marines, dating from 1889-90. But Lighter has a British cite from 1823 that refers to US Marines and their "leather neckcloths."

Complicating the arguments of those who claim an American origin, is the fact that the US Marines abandoned their leather neck stocks in 1875, some 32 years before the first attested American usage of the term. It is possible of course, if unlikely, that the slang usage survived those years unrecorded.

Partridge suggests that it may be related to boot-neck, another term for a Royal Marine that dates from the mid-nineteenth century.

The OED2 also includes an 1898 usage from Australia, where leatherneck is slang for a rouseabout, or a man or boy employed at a sheep station. This term is probably unrelated to the leatherneck as marine term, and probably derives from the leathery skin of the neck acquired from long hours working in the desert sun.

[Crucible]

Yep, forgot about that Because some of the escrimadors would take the shot from the .38 and still slice the shooter to ribbons while mortally wounded. The .45, however, evened up the odds quite nicely

I dont know if there were any eskrimadors taking shots like that and running around, but there were Juramentado's. To my knowledge the most dramatic acounts of the the ineffectiveness of the .38 was with the muslims of the southern P.I., not with eskrima practioners of the northern or central P.I..

As addendum to Koto Ryu's history, it was at this time the United States military forces necessarily changed their sidearm from the .38-caliber revolver to the Colt .45 Automatic Pistol.

Just learned this, apparently the .45 automatic wasn't issued untill 1911. What saw service in the P.I. between 1902 and then was the .45 revolver.


...he was finally felled by a .45 slug through both ears... He had thirty-two Krag balls through him and was only stopped by the Colt .45 - the thirty-third bullet.

[Crucible]

koto-ryu,
Cool picture! LOL!

[haumana2000]

If I remember right, In Mark Wileys work the Filipino Martial arts which has been both praised and criticized, it states that the term Leatherneck was brought about not by the American occupation of the Philippines, but "reinstated" as a result of the ensuing clashes. Either way, the regard in which Pinoy bladework was held is unmistakeable.

[Crucible]

Thanks Haumana, I'm sure somewhere there's an actual historical reference to it. I've even heard that the leathernecks had a metal plate in the leather neck strap, for protection. Know if there's any acurracy behind that?