VS GUN/KNIFE DRAWS

[knuckledragger]

I saw this silat move on a Greg Alland tape where as the guy goes to draw his knife, you check it ,draw his own knife and stab him with it.I work out with a guy who is a court officer and we altered this technique into a weapon retention drill . I try and grab his holsterd firearm /he tries to defend it . we found that even if I couldnt get his gun away from him I could keep him from using/drawing it,he at first expected me to try and draw /take it so instead I switched to keeping it in his holster and hitting him or drawing my training knife and shanking him. So I was wondering if anyone else out there does drills or trains for weapon draws edged or otherwise?

[Chad W. Getz]

Pressure Zero

[Underdog]

I give you some hints on handgun disarms:

1. If the handgun is real close to you (as in gun-under-troath disarm) remember to shut your eyes closed as you move the weapone past you. If in the meantime it discharges, there will be enough hor gases to blind you permanently.

2. Try to recognize the type of weapon. If you grab a revolver around the cylinder, you will have good chance to block it, making the gun very hard to fire.
If the gun is a semiautomatic with exposed hammer, try to grab it in manner to block the hammer fall. The same for a single action semiauto. If you are confronted by a glock wielder, try to arretrate the slide at least a inch, this will disconnect the firing pin impeding to discharge it.

3. If someone held you at gunpoint try to recognize his skill level, if he held the weapon close to him and far from you there is no chance in the world that you will disarm him, ever. He likely is a skilled guy.

If otherwise, he poke the gun at you remember: the average reaction time is 0.25 secs for a trained individual, if you start moving for a disarm this is the time you'll have before the opponent will move even the trigger finger, in this short amount of time you will have time only to divert the weapon from you. Try to secure it real hard, then do wathever technique you have trained in. Hoping it would be pratical....

P.S. the so called "gangsta style" weapon holding, where the gun is held somewhat upside down, is the amateur mark, it lends itself better to disarms.

[Kyoshu]

The main point for me is getting out of the weapons range, the rest follows from that.

Kyoshu

[sikal]

Originally posted by Underdog
I give you some hints on handgun disarms:

1. If the handgun is real close to you (as in gun-under-troath disarm) remember to shut your eyes closed as you move the weapone past you. If in the meantime it discharges, there will be enough hor gases to blind you permanently.

2. Try to recognize the type of weapon. If you grab a revolver around the cylinder, you will have good chance to block it, making the gun very hard to fire.
If the gun is a semiautomatic with exposed hammer, try to grab it in manner to block the hammer fall. The same for a single action semiauto. If you are confronted by a glock wielder, try to arretrate the slide at least a inch, this will disconnect the firing pin impeding to discharge it.

3. If someone held you at gunpoint try to recognize his skill level, if he held the weapon close to him and far from you there is no chance in the world that you will disarm him, ever. He likely is a skilled guy.

If otherwise, he poke the gun at you remember: the average reaction time is 0.25 secs for a trained individual, if you start moving for a disarm this is the time you'll have before the opponent will move even the trigger finger, in this short amount of time you will have time only to divert the weapon from you. Try to secure it real hard, then do wathever technique you have trained in. Hoping it would be pratical....

P.S. the so called "gangsta style" weapon holding, where the gun is held somewhat upside down, is the amateur mark, it lends itself better to disarms.

Interesting ... my only problem with all of this (in general) is that when you divert the weapon from you, it could end up being pointed at (and fired at) an innocent bystander. That could end up being a heavy weight on your conscience ... of course, there's nothing you can do about it but react to the situation at hand. But it is something to think about. A tangent to this is that if you know there are bystanders (i.e.: maybe one of your loved ones nearby), you should try to divert the gun out of the line of them as well as yourself ... again, just something to think about.

Hopefully none of us will have to deal with this situation so it will never get past the stage of "hypothetical consideration."

Regards, Mike

[Underdog]

Good point, sikal.

That's something we pondered alot; I really can't explain fully on writing my disarm technique, but assuming that you opponent is holding you at gunpoint with his right hand, and you are facing him somewhat with a right lead stance, the moment you start moving, pivoting on your right leg, you grab his gun with both hands and start turning, even if you don't think about, most of the time the muzzle of the gun will be pointed UPWARD in a somewhat safe direction, but close to your face (this is the reason for shutting eyes), we have tried this with plastic BB guns, and IF you start first and your opponent has to react and IF the gun is at contact distance 99% of the times it works.

[sikal]

Originally posted by Underdog
Good point, sikal.

That's something we pondered alot; I really can't explain fully on writing my disarm technique, but assuming that you opponent is holding you at gunpoint with his right hand, and you are facing him somewhat with a right lead stance, the moment you start moving, pivoting on your right leg, you grab his gun with both hands and start turning, even if you don't think about, most of the time the muzzle of the gun will be pointed UPWARD in a somewhat safe direction, but close to your face (this is the reason for shutting eyes), we have tried this with plastic BB guns, and IF you start first and your opponent has to react and IF the gun is at contact distance 99% of the times it works.

Valid points ... but if the gun fires up, the bullet has to come down somewhere. I guess that's slightly less lethal to a bystander than a direct shot.

Another thing to be aware of is that when you grab the gun, try to get hold of the slide or the hammer (depending on the type of gun). This improves your margin of safety a little bit (i.e.: if it's an semi-automatic and they pull the trigger, if you're able to cover the ejection slot -- you will get burned but that's a minor concern at this juncture -- the gun might jam ... of course if it's a revolver and you get hold of the hammer then it can't fire -- you might get your finger/skin pinched or torn, again a minor concern). Of course either of these is difficult to do ... but they should be considered in training so that they have a better chance of coming out in reality :-)

Regards, Mike