The Problem Here...

[serveinsilence]

I have read one of Dan Inosantos remarks..he said that a lot of stuff has been said/written about JKD...but nevertheless they (these authors) were not there ... he was there with Bruce Lee...

And this is the sad state of FMA..many so called FMA instructors--practitioners with their advanced educations and good conversational skills and their third to fourth degree filipino lineages..tend to become the so called experts..BUT NEVER ACTUALLY LIVED IN THE PHILIPPINES TO EXPERIENCE ALL OF THIS! (capitalized to make a point--not to scream)..they have never been there..experienced the life....and actually submerge themselves in the culture. Some spend a few months with organized training and feel that they are Filipinos...some Filipinos(sad to say) portray the entire country as lawless and unorganized..the PI is a country that has a Filipino Martial Art history..that's it..now it is a land of law and order! period.

So Cano"s (Our way of calling americans) dont be duped by these people who sound like they are experts but has never been there..or supposedlly experts who has tribes based in their family names (this is hilarious-might as well call all last Filipino names tribes--like the Magaani tribe-the dela cruz tribe-the Dabis tribe-all filipino last names for a fact)..and before you beleive if these are tribes...check the net and google it first..if they are actuall a tribe or a made up tribe...

from the tribe of Silence ...Ha ha ha ha.....F*&^%^&g J%@$ks.

[danjuandesiga]

I've lived in the PI for most of my childhood going back and forth. During my stay, I have found that FMA is not eaxctly too popular there since a wide percentage of the natives tend to want to learn other oriental martial arts other than their own mother art because it seems to be more socailly acceptable and many of them consider their own native art to only be practiced by backwoods savage tribes such as the Igorots and other mountainous tribes living in the provinces. I've found that FMA recieves more respect and appreciation outside of the country where it was bred.

[danjuandesiga]

I have read one of Dan Inosantos remarks..he said that a lot of stuff has been said/written about JKD...but nevertheless they (these authors) were not there ... he was there with Bruce Lee...

And this is the sad state of FMA..many so called FMA instructors--practitioners with their advanced educations and good conversational skills and their third to fourth degree filipino lineages..tend to become the so called experts..BUT NEVER ACTUALLY LIVED IN THE PHILIPPINES TO EXPERIENCE ALL OF THIS! (capitalized to make a point--not to scream)..they have never been there..experienced the life....and actually submerge themselves in the culture. Some spend a few months with organized training and feel that they are Filipinos...some Filipinos(sad to say) portray the entire country as lawless and unorganized..the PI is a country that has a Filipino Martial Art history..that's it..now it is a land of law and order! period.

So Cano"s (Our way of calling americans) dont be duped by these people who sound like they are experts but has never been there..or supposedlly experts who has tribes based in their family names (this is hilarious-might as well call all last Filipino names tribes--like the Magaani tribe-the dela cruz tribe-the Dabis tribe-all filipino last names for a fact)..and before you beleive if these are tribes...check the net and google it first..if they are actuall a tribe or a made up tribe...

from the tribe of Silence ...Ha ha ha ha.....F*&^%^&g J%@$ks.

I had to sit through and read this post again(and 2x more), and I was curious about something.....

Are you making an insinuation to the fact that Guro Inosanto had never set foot on Philippine soil, and mean to bash him indirectly? THE... Guro Dan Inosanto who had devoted much of his lifetime from his association with Bruce Lee to PROMOTING THE FILIPINO MARTIAL ARTS WORLDWIDE where he has met and trained under several FMA players from our native land firsthand and supported them by promoting their works? This very same individual who is still training and learning more and more only to openly share more and more to those non-Filipinos who actually bear admiration and respect toward the beauty of our own warrior culture....

Please..... buddy,... keep your racist remarks to yourself, because you are giving FMA and (open-minded)Filipinos a very bad name. That is one of the things that puts FMA in a "very sad state"

[bahotae]

I had to sit through and read this post again(and 2x more), and I was curious about something.....

Are you making an insinuation to the fact that Guro Inosanto had never set foot on Philippine soil, and mean to bash him indirectly? THE... Guro Dan Inosanto who had devoted much of his lifetime from his association with Bruce Lee to PROMOTING THE FILIPINO MARTIAL ARTS WORLDWIDE where he has met and trained under several FMA players from our native land firsthand and supported them by promoting their works? This very same individual who is still training and learning more and more only to openly share more and more to those non-Filipinos who actually bear admiration and respect toward the beauty of our own warrior culture....

Please..... buddy,... keep your racist remarks to yourself, because you are giving FMA and (open-minded)Filipinos a very bad name. That is one of the things that puts FMA in a "very sad state"

I dont think he was being a racists.


He's just saying that you cant be a true master of FMA if you haven't lived or been in the Philippines. I dont agree with that statement. If that was the case you cant be a Muay thai instructor if your not Thai or lived in Thailand or a BJJ instructors ir your not Brazilian or lived in Brazil. Thats just illogical.

I think he was trying to imply that Dan Inosanto is a hypocrite.

Only the thread starter settle this for us.

[William]

This type of posting has popped up a number of times over the years, and I think Daniel and bahotae answered it correctly imho. Don't get me wrong, I think traveling to the country of origin can be very beneficial, but it is by no means a determining factor in how good someone's skills are. People like Leo Gaje, Cacoy Canete, The Presas brothers, Abon Baet, Angel Cabales, Edgar Sulite, Leo Giron and others came here and entrusted their teaching in the hands of many capable people...not all of whom have been to the Philippines. Yet their skills still stand out and they have proven themselves to be excellent teachers and fighters in spite of the fact they haven't been to the Islands. And, on the other side of the coin, there are some people who have been there who are sub-par instructors in my opinion. Money can't always buy skill.

Bottom line is: There are people here who go to great lengths to keep the art as real as possible to prevent it from becoming a McDojo watered down type of art. People who are very good at teaching and fighting. People who do it for the love of the art...the flowing , combative nature of the FMA's.





William

[danjuandesiga]

right on.... just as I thought it would be.

[danjuandesiga]

I think he was trying to imply that Dan Inosanto is a hypocrite.

Interesting insight.
That word or thought never crossed my mind at all..... but I don't see how that makes any sense. Guro Dan is far from hypocritical especially if he's a perfect example of an open-minded martial artist without any politics or contempt for any other Martial artists.

[Sun_Helmet]

As I suspected, this person's true agenda and simple-mindedness has been exposed.

I don't know who he is refering to. I know for a fact that my own instructor Tatang Bo Sayoc retired and just passed away in Cavite. Some of the Sayocs were just there. I went to school there.

Just because people move away from their country of origin does not mean they do not know, respect or have shed blood for that country. Just do a search on the post on FMA in WW2 to read about several Filipinos who ended up coming to the US , AFTER they had fought for their country of origin. My own family included (read the middle of that thread).

In addition, people like Manong Inosanto are pioneers and did much of the tough work for the future of FMA. Where were these guys when I had to enter Karate tournaments in the 80's and were disqualified half the time because I wasn't representing a "real" martial art? Did they compete and represent their country's art? One of the only Filipinos I knew about and looked up to around that time WAS Manong Inosanto! He was a gateway to the rest of the FMA community.

No, you can just about see the seething contempt this person has for his fellow countrymen. It's a perfect example of what keeps FMA below the radar even in its own country of origin.

--Rafael--

[serveinsilence]

I'm glad tha this thread has caught you attention.....
I am not here to lambast those who have paved the way for the real practitioners of FMA..

I have utmost respect for Maestro Dan Inosanto.......
and to those who has in one or the other paved the way for FMA to be what it is today...
My rant was all about the fakes and those who offer quickie promotions through seminars..through distance training and the like..

C'mon guys..you know where you stand...when i reffered to Inosanto's words..it was out of respect to the man and out of agreement to his words..it was not a rant on him and on any other real FMA pursuers...

Now we can all agree on these..
1. the existence of quickie seminar promotions.
2. those people who claim crazy degrees in the fma and based their supposedly existing degrees promote others.
3. the emergence of half baked and watered down plan of instructions.
4. Fma as a support art and not an entire art in itself.
5. masters (black belts and counterpart) of other arts aside from FMA who offer FMA as an additional art they teach but all they do is the Modern Arnis Sinawali.
6. The obvious karatezation (if there is such a word) of FMA..karate with sticks..linear and rigid.

Now to all who believe that we all do the real essence of FMA..UNITE!
in exposing these.

I even propose that there should be a list of upcoming and new FMA representatives based on a given criteria..to unite all systems and styles may they be synthesized style or existing ..fofrthe modern period.
I believe the books of Masters of Kali Arnis and Escrima by the Late PG sulite should be updated and that Master Galangs book on the same should also be updated..not changed but updated.

I propose that we try to forge this criteria as to who and what is real FMA pursuance and not...

Hope to hear from you all.

"..ali manga kaigso-onan og maminaw ta..nga ana-y dakong mahitabo sa lugar sa Mindanao.."

[danjuandesiga]

Now we can all agree on these..
1. the existence of quickie seminar promotions.
2. those people who claim crazy degrees in the fma and based their supposedly existing degrees promote others.
3. the emergence of half baked and watered down plan of instructions.
4. Fma as a support art and not an entire art in itself.
5. masters (black belts and counterpart) of other arts aside from FMA who offer FMA as an additional art they teach but all they do is the Modern Arnis Sinawali.
6. The obvious karatezation (if there is such a word) of FMA..karate with sticks..linear and rigid.

Now to all who believe that we all do the real essence of FMA..UNITE!
in exposing these.

I even propose that there should be a list of upcoming and new FMA representatives based on a given criteria..to unite all systems and styles may they be synthesized style or existing ..fofrthe modern period.

I propose that we try to forge this criteria as to who and what is real FMA pursuance and not...

Your proposal reeks of an implication of dark political motive. Besides, I don't even know who the hell you are. You type up your hype as if you represent the "be and and end all" of FMA because you're Filipino? GTFO!

I have an idea.... IF.. you could convince top authorities in FMA such as Guro Inosanto, Manong Rafael and the Sayoc camp, Grand Tuhon Leo Gaje Jr or even the Canetes in Cebu, or even the Dog Brothers to go along with your proposal, then maybe I'll think about listening to you. Until then, I'm too busy trying to grow up in this art and make the best I can out of it in every way by promoting FMA in the most positive manner as can be done.

[serveinsilence]

Your proposal reeks of an implication of dark political motive. Besides, I don't even know who the hell you are. You type up your hype as if you represent the "be and and end all" of FMA because you're Filipino? GTFO!

Hello Mr. Daniel Arola,
Thanks for the response even if it's a little harsh. I do agree with your statement...that you don't know me. I already informed sun helmet who i am..my name is Ally Trino a native of the Philippines.


I have an idea.... IF.. you could convince top authorities in FMA such as Guro Inosanto, Manong Rafael and the Sayoc camp, Grand Tuhon Leo Gaje Jr or even the Canetes in Cebu, or even the Dog Brothers to go along with your proposal, then maybe I'll think about listening to you. Until then, I'm too busy trying to grow up in this art and make the best I can out of it in every way by promoting FMA in the most positive manner as can be done.

This is exactly the reason Daniel that we need to forge a distinction since FMA is so loose a group and practice..each school has a certain type of things they do..this is not bad since it is tradition. And tradition is something that we need to uphold...political..NO i beg to differ....I had a chance in meeting PG Sulite in the PI when he was doing his Masters of Kali-Arnis-Escrima..he actually had the fear (he even stated this in his book) that the masters will not cooperate..he had this agenda where old masters were not sold out to..but if he stopped..we could not have the books that are so helpful even until now. The whole point is for the new generation of teachers to collate and be part of a broader perspective based on agreed criteria. Dont worry Mr. Arola..when we are done in our end i am sure you will hear from us..just to be part of this effort. We want it to be compreghensive and of course we would wish the input of our brothers there in the States and around the globe.

Ally Trino

[Sun_Helmet]

6. The obvious karatezation (if there is such a word) of FMA..karate with sticks..linear and rigid.

Perhaps you should begin with convincing those in Cebu who claim to be authorities in FMA and state that the majority of FMA is due to Spanish influence. If that is so, then these "linear and rigid aspects" did not come from the Japanese or Okinawans "karate".

The fluid movements of Indonesian, Malay, Chinese and our indigenous tribes play a HUGE factor in the makeup of FMA, correct?

--Rafael--

[serveinsilence]

Perhaps you should begin with convincing those in Cebu who claim to be authorities in FMA and state that the majority of FMA is due to Spanish influence. If that is so, then these "linear and rigid aspects" did not come from the Japanese or Okinawans "karate".

The fluid movements of Indonesian, Malay, Chinese and our indigenous tribes play a HUGE factor in the makeup of FMA, correct?

--Rafael--

Your statement I believe is correct ..so what's your point sir?

[Sun_Helmet]

Your statement I believe is correct ..so what's your point sir?

My point is that if you stated it was "karate" based, you just contradicted that statement by agreeing that the rigidity and lack of non linear movements are Spanish based.

If you want unity, try to figure out where YOU stand first.

--Rafael--

[danjuandesiga]

The whole point is for the new generation of teachers to collate and be part of a broader perspective based on agreed criteria.

Not only does this seem very similar to as you say "karate-ized" with sticks, but isn't there already a worldwide FMA organization that fits this example? Forgive me for furthering my frankness to the extreme, but I do not wish for my cup of Kali to become "WEKAFinated", because this is just exactly what it's starting to sound like. WEKAF is a fine organization on it's own as it's own kind. Why bother trying to duplicate it?

Dont worry Mr. Arola..when we are done in our end i am sure you will hear from us..just to be part of this effort. We want it to be compreghensive and of course we would wish the input of our brothers there in the States and around the globe.
Ally Trino

I'm already content where I stand in the FMA world. Besides, I like it loose and wild because that is the nature(tradition) of FMA. Like in many other martial arts styles and systems, there will always be someone of the same art that agrees to disagree and there is nothing that flows out of what becomes "standardized" in an "agreed criteria"...

Sorry man, but I just don't DIG it.