Differences between Atienza Kali & Sayoc

[Black Tiger]

Hi Guys,

What are the differences between the fma arts, Atienza kali and sayoc kali.
Which is more street functional and covers all the weapons including empty hand.

Best Regards

Black Tiger

[rayfloro]

BOTH are EXCELLENT........it just depends on whether a school is closer to you or not.

[Airyu]

Hello Black Tiger,

Sayoc Kali and Atienza Kali are sister arts, both are independent but highly effective. The Atienza Kali Tuhons and practitioners work side by side with Sayoc Tuhons and practitioners. Every Sama Sama the Tuhons of the Atienza family come and teach, work and learn from Sayoc Kali and other M.A. instructors.

It is not about who is best, but how can we continue to evolve and improve each other's art.

You will not do wrong in training with either group.

Gumagalang
Guro Steve L.

https://www.Bujinkandojo.net

https://www.Sayoc.com

ps: Hey Raymond hope all is well, it was good talking to you the other day!!

[danjuandesiga]

I DIG them both! Those guys rock!

[Black Tiger]

Thanks for all the advice

Black Tiger

[kablade]

Great reply Guro Steve....Its always amazing to get the Atienza and Sayoc Clans together. As always...looking forward to Sama-Sama.

Seth

[Airyu]

Hi Seth!

I can't wait for Sama Sama this year! Always a great gathering of fantastic people training and sharing together.

Gumagalang
Guro Steve

ps: It will be good to catch up with you again to my friend!

[zchaos]

Hello Black Tiger,

Sayoc Kali and Atienza Kali are sister arts, both are independent but highly effective. The Atienza Kali Tuhons and practitioners work side by side with Sayoc Tuhons and practitioners. Every Sama Sama the Tuhons of the Atienza family come and teach, work and learn from Sayoc Kali and other M.A. instructors.

It is not about who is best, but how can we continue to evolve and improve each other's art.

You will not do wrong in training with either group.

Gumagalang
Guro Steve L.

https://www.Bujinkandojo.net

https://www.Sayoc.com

ps: Hey Raymond hope all is well, it was good talking to you the other day!!

no wonder the atienza brothers are looking like the sayoc guys
especially on their website.

[Black Tiger]

Dear Guro Steve L,

Thank you for your help and i will start training, i am really interested in learning the sword art. The art Perkti Tersia what is that like? also does sayoc cover the mass attack?

best regards

BT

[Airyu]

Hi BT,

I have enjoyed all of my training in the three arts PTK, Sayoc Kali, and Atienza Kali. All three are have fantastic components to them!

There are some similarities to all three(as with many arts) and there are many differences as well. So, I think the best way for you to get an understanding of any one of them is to actually spend some "one on one" time with a certified instructor of each art. Once you have a feel (hands on) you will see where you would best benefit from the individual arts approach to training.

Hey and if you enjoy more than one, cross train!!

I hope this helps

Guro Steve L.

https://www.Bujinkandojo.net

https://www.Sayoc.com

[Black Grass]

...

There are some similarities to all three(as with many arts) and there are many differences as well.

...

https://www.Bujinkandojo.net

www.Sayoc.com

Could you tell us some basic similarities and difference

Vince
aka Black Grass

[Sun_Helmet]

From my perspective the similarities is that both groups are evolving in a logical and natural flow based on their experiences, results and feedback.

Both groups are result oriented, so differences would be more in the structural aspects of the system rather than how actual differences in curriculum (even if there are marked difference) dictates a student's progress.

Why? because both groups understand there are MANY paths to the SAME goal, and many places where it logically overlaps.

So rather than focus energy on competitive and dividing dramatics (an unfortunate trait in MAs, not just FMAs)- both groups have learned to co-exist, complement and channel their efforts to being more productive.

By pushing the boundaries from different points we can go much farther in evolving the arts. It's worked quite well so far.

The goal is to lend a blade to their brother rather than cut each other's hands off while everyone watches.


--Rafael--
Sayoc Kali

[Airyu]

Hello Vince,

Haven't chatted with you for some time, I hope all is well. Still training in Kalis Ilustrisimo? How's it going?

As to similarities and differences in the comparison of arts, it is always difficutlt to do this in a written way, because the nature of martial arts is in action/motion. Many of the same principles are very similar in the arts an example: targeting chains - templates - angles of attack etc. etc. It is how one approaches the entry thru movement that the differences or stylistic approaches truely appear.

An ex: When one does a "pluma" type entry/counter in K.I. is it different than say what the entry in Lameco Escrima is? Of course they are similar as they have infuenced each other and trained with each other, only to improve and evolve even further.

Now if you would like to discuss specific differences you would have to be experienced in each art to really grasp what is different vs a stylistic or strategy approach. Have you been able to train for awhile with Sayoc kali or Atienza kali practitioners yet?

In my training each time I wondered about the differences of an art from the one I was practicing, I picked up the phone to find the nearest instructor to start some training in.

If you have a specific item that you know of, let's start with that and I am sure between the various people on this board we could get a better understanding of the arts

Gumagalang
Guro Steve L.

"Train Hard it is the Way!"

[Black Grass]

Hello Vince,

Haven't chatted with you for some time, I hope all is well. Still training in Kalis Ilustrisimo? How's it going?

As to similarities and differences in the comparison of arts, it is always difficutlt to do this in a written way, because the nature of martial arts is in action/motion. Many of the same principles are very similar in the arts an example: targeting chains - templates - angles of attack etc. etc. It is how one approaches the entry thru movement that the differences or stylistic approaches truely appear.

An ex: When one does a "pluma" type entry/counter in K.I. is it different than say what the entry in Lameco Escrima is? Of course they are similar as they have infuenced each other and trained with each other, only to improve and evolve even further.

Now if you would like to discuss specific differences you would have to be experienced in each art to really grasp what is different vs a stylistic or strategy approach. Have you been able to train for awhile with Sayoc kali or Atienza kali practitioners yet?

In my training each time I wondered about the differences of an art from the one I was practicing, I picked up the phone to find the nearest instructor to start some training in.

If you have a specific item that you know of, let's start with that and I am sure between the various people on this board we could get a better understanding of the arts

Gumagalang
Guro Steve L.

"Train Hard it is the Way!"

Steve,

Was not looking for anything specific was just try to to spur discusion. I will probably never train in Sayoc or Ateinza, I barely get time to see my own KI instructors . I find it interesting to see what other systems do and since Ateinza and Sayoc seemed closely aligned i thought it would be interesting discussion.


Vince
aka Black Grass

[MasterKaliSilat]

Actually there's no difference in the end results, trainging any Filipino System will allow the user to arrive at the most important concept. Developing yourself, as you do it, making the art your own. As Grand Master Juni Canete once said, "Filipinos have to share in order to grow". Share and the student and teacher continue to grow, is a concept of "SinaTirsiaWali", derived from the practices of Pekiti Tirsia, Doce Pares, Illustrisimo Kali, Lightening Arnis, and from among other well known masters and grand masters in the Philippines.