The Best Movie Fight Scene?

[Guest]

Matt Damon was trained by a range of people for The Bourne Identity, one of those was Damon Caro at the Inosanto Academy. Damon acted as a consultant on the Kali elements that form the basics of the fight techniques, but he actual choreography was done by stunt co-ordinator Nick Powell.

The fight scenes in the Bourne Supremacy were devised and choreographed by Jeff Imada and Damon Caro. Jeff Imada choreographed the Ultimatum; I believe Damon was working on 300.

[treelizard]

Yeah, I'd heard it was Caro. Cool.

I love those movies!

Who did the fight choreography for Equilibrium?

[Guest]

The Stunt Co-ordinator and Fight Choreographer on Equilibrium was Jim Vickers, but he credits Director Kurt Wimmer with a lot of the vision.

[Sun_Helmet]

Inosanto guy - Jonathan Eusebio trained Matt Damon for three months prior to filming the first Bourne film.

From many accounts Damon seemed to have really liked training the FMA.

--Rafael--

[JBolton]

Movie fight scenes have come a long way since the '70s! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1eFdUSnaQM

(I laugh out loud every time I see this!)

[Britt]

Below, you can check out some of the fight boards for the HUNTED that I drew so that the director can film it. I did over 80 drawings that Tuhon Tom and I choreographed and trained the actors/stuntmen. This clip just shows how closely some the shots were to the artwork.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVB2SLPHFPE

I agree, you will definitely see more FMA in films in the future. Btw, we also worked with Matt Damon's trainer for the first BOURNE film - he was an Inosanto guy.

--Rafael--

Wow, that was you?!? I'm impressed!!

[Subitai]

I have seen all 3 movies. I dislike the 2nd and 3rd because they use allot of "Hand-Held" Camera work. I know they are trying to make it more gritty and close up...but therein lies the problem.

I totally disagree filmwise, the fight you posted is SOOO overly edited and cut up that you can't really see anything well.

Count the edits yourself, for a simple elbow or wrist lock, TONS of Quick snaping edits for dramatic effect!!! That doesn't impress me, as a film Choreographer myself, that exactly How you CHEAT.

The PEN fight in his 1st movie of the series had a much clearer view of what was going on. What was it called Bourne Identity? The Fight in that movie was much better.

As a martial artist, I don't need to be dazzled by camera work. Dazzling shakey cameras and sound effects are for the masses who don't know good martial arts when they see it. I want to REALLY SEE EVERY DETAIL and enjoy the skill of the people.

Fancy editing is used to compensate for lack of skills, for example... This is how they would film someone like Jennifer Gardener (who is obviously NOT a martial artist) in a fight scene.

It's unfortunate because judging by the 1st movie, they DO have the skills to really showcase the DETAILS of the fight.

"O"

[Guest]

Good post sir, all interesting views.

I don't watch movies as a martial artist, I watch them as a movie fan. I don't really want to see real violence as I've seen it close up too many times, and its horrible. I want to be entertained and for me camera work and editing add to the experience, if done well of course.

As a film choreographer I am a little surprised at your views, for surely in the world of film its not about what you want to show, but what the audience will pay to see.

[Subitai]

Good post sir, all interesting views.

I don't watch movies as a martial artist, I watch them as a movie fan. I don't really want to see real violence as I've seen it close up too many times, and its horrible. I want to be entertained and for me camera work and editing add to the experience, if done well of course.

As a film choreographer I am a little surprised at your views, for surely in the world of film its not about what you want to show, but what the audience will pay to see.

Btw, I did not mean to imply in any way that you were unknowledgeble. I totally see your point of view.

Also, in what you said lies a problem...Money! and what people will pay. Call me a purest, but my personal argument has always been to try to please THE MARTIAL ARTIST 1ST (in a Martial arts scene) and please the masses after...Speaking about martial arts scenes of course.

As a martial artist, I want to see exactly how Matt Damon has progressed and can apply. I rather not see 5 edits for a simple punch.

Typical example on this fight,

*edit, matt pulls his arm back to punch / CUT
(not shown arm in flight, his stance, his speed his ability to close the gap on his opponant)

*edit, bad dude reacts visually but still not touching / CUT
(See his face as he realizes the danger)

*edit, in the very next frame...Matt arm is touching ala blocked by bad guy / CUT

*edit, change camera position for a split second to set up the next edit / CUT

*edit, bad guy BEGINS an "Arm Wrap Method" to counter the punch/ CUT

*edit, See matts reaction to previous move. / CUT

*edit, Blah blah blah.

For peets sakes you don't need that many!
As I said b4, the 1st bourne movie did that better. My opinion of course.

There are entire sections in Bourne Ultimatum that made me feel as if I were watching "Blair Witch Project" ....all the hand camera work was just too much for me.

I think you do have a point about entertainment. But I also think BOTH our points can be achieved.

"O"

[Guest]

No problem sir, I didn't take anything negative from your post. You clearly know your craft and are very passionate, I respect that. I'm no expert in your field so its really interesting to hear your thoughts.

If I sat down to watch a pure martial arts movie I suppose I would do so with a more critical eye. For me the Bourne movies are great thrillers first and foremost that contain, in my opinion, very good fight scenes. I'm biased I guess because its a joy to see good, intelligent Kali in mainstream movies.

But I totally understand your point of view, in that you feel the martial arts could have shone through even more with a clearer, more faithful approach. I'm a musician, and I don't like anyone telling me that my songs need to be changed or "commercialised" for a wider audience. So I think your point of view is cool.

[WildWest.]

What somebody deems to be their "best fight scene in a movie" is always going to be subjective and personal depending on how you like a fight scene to play out.

For example, for myself I think the Bourne movies rock with awesome fight scenes that aren't full of the high kicking crap you see in a lot of MA and other Hollywood type films. I like the close quater stuff because I like that type of fighting.

However, the fight scene between Jackie Chan and 2 guys on top of a building in Rotterdam in the film "Who Am I?" is fantastic in terms of choreography but shit in terms of reality. Still one of my favourite scenes though, as with a lot of Jackie Chans stuff, because he knows what he's doing and knows how to entertain in that genre.

Others will like the fantasy type stuff from Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, others may like Rocky, Ong Bak, Jet Li, Steven Seagal, Jean Claude Van Damme etc etc all because they use unique MA elements that the viewer specifically enjoys seeing and wants to see in a move fight scene.

There is nothing right or wrong here only general consensus and personal preference.

[Paco]

Jus' my picks:

"Sha Po Lang"- the whole movie was good, but I really really liked the fight scene between Donnie Yen and Jian Wu, for me it is the best FMA fight(aside from Bourne and the Hunted) I've seen on screen. Tactical baton vs. Pakal-grip blade... NICE! Donnie also used a lot of BJJ moves in the movie (which he credited), but I don't think he came clean with the fact that the knife vs. stick fight was pure FMA.

The catfight in the first Kill Bill between Uma and Vivica was really good (but then they kinda ruined it by putting a bunch of wires in the Japanese club fight scene).

[treelizard]

I liked the Bourne fight scenes because they were non-traditional. I felt like they flowed naturally from the storyline. and fit in well with the genre (which I guess I'd label "smart action". Equilibrium had a lot of flash and dazzle but I rented the entire movie just so I could see hubud lubud with guns. The Hunted fight scenes were incredible...just the thought behind them was evident even to the untrained eye. The tracking/survival elements were a bit far-fetched because it was a movie. The essence/energy behind what was displayed was accurate although there were some inaccuracies which most moviegoers would never have even noticed. Kevin Reeve worked on the set of that movie, and he is nothing less than genius in the areas of tracking and survival. And he was incredibly impressed with Sayoc Kali. But I digress. Has anyone seen I Am Legend yet? I thought the fight scenes sucked but the movie did a really good job of capturing a situation which was reminiscent of a Mike Brewer survival scenario post on defend.net.

[jubaji]

Well, there's another movie I'm never gonna watch.

[treelizard]

I hate full frontal male nudity in a fight scene!

I was hoping for some in 300, but no such luck.