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  • old is new, new is old...

    I'm posting this thread to kick some life back into this forum (the way it used to be)...

    Old schoolers know my MA background. I started off in a traditional system, crossed into mixed martial arts and am now separating the things that I liked from MMA and joining them with new arts. One of those arts is kali.

    Why kali? Blades (and impact weapons) are underrated for self defense both against armed and unarmed opponents. One should select a weapon appropriate for the engagement they will be involved in, but consider an urban environment (surprise, surprise...).

    If you're using a heavy caliber pistol in an urban environment, there's a chance of collateral damage since you are in a high population density environment - which is no bueno for legal situations should you miss and hit something you didn't intend. If you're in a hostile environment, pistol fire will draw attention to your presence as well -> yes, one can use suppression for improved noise discipline or using lower caliber, hollow tip rounds to reduce penetration through walls etc. but most of us just want to defend ourselves. I'm not saying one should walk around with a machete or ghurka type short sword, but a weapon that is legal length in the state you live in will be fine. Also have a basic understanding of the use of deadly force and when its permitted.

    Lastly, its hard to tell whose a good guy and a bad guy, which makes it easier for someone to get close and grab your gun. An armed, holstered sentry with a condition 1 pistol can get stabbed by a knife wielding attacker even with a 19 foot gap.

    The art of pekiti tirsia kali means close quarter fighting, roughly (my tagalog is rusty). It is a comprehensive weapon fighting art that addresses the question: what if someone grabs my gun but more importantly it addresses the question: what if someone pulls out a knife and even simpler: how can I use a blade in self defense.

    I'm just getting started in this art. Enjoying it as well!

    PS - Im still into muaythai and exotic grappling, fear not


    YouTube - Pekiti Tirsia Kali - Knife vs Gun

  • #2
    If physique is anything to go by, what Tom Yum is training must be very effective...... the man is an Adonis.

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm just a dude. Cake, you're not too bad yourself...

      I'd be honored to help out with working the guard


      Trying to think outside the box in my martial arts development. Keeping it real though.

      Comment


      • #4
        Nice clip Thai knife...

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Tom Yum View Post
          I'm posting this thread to kick some life back into this forum (the way it used to be)...

          Old schoolers know my MA background. I started off in a traditional system, crossed into mixed martial arts and am now separating the things that I liked from MMA and joining them with new arts. One of those arts is kali.

          Why kali? Blades (and impact weapons) are underrated for self defense both against armed and unarmed opponents. One should select a weapon appropriate for the engagement they will be involved in, but consider an urban environment (surprise, surprise...).

          If you're using a heavy caliber pistol in an urban environment, there's a chance of collateral damage since you are in a high population density environment - which is no bueno for legal situations should you miss and hit something you didn't intend. If you're in a hostile environment, pistol fire will draw attention to your presence as well -> yes, one can use suppression for improved noise discipline or using lower caliber, hollow tip rounds to reduce penetration through walls etc. but most of us just want to defend ourselves. I'm not saying one should walk around with a machete or ghurka type short sword, but a weapon that is legal length in the state you live in will be fine. Also have a basic understanding of the use of deadly force and when its permitted.

          Lastly, its hard to tell whose a good guy and a bad guy, which makes it easier for someone to get close and grab your gun. An armed, holstered sentry with a condition 1 pistol can get stabbed by a knife wielding attacker even with a 19 foot gap.

          The art of pekiti tirsia kali means close quarter fighting, roughly (my tagalog is rusty). It is a comprehensive weapon fighting art that addresses the question: what if someone grabs my gun but more importantly it addresses the question: what if someone pulls out a knife and even simpler: how can I use a blade in self defense.

          I'm just getting started in this art. Enjoying it as well!

          PS - Im still into muaythai and exotic grappling, fear not


          YouTube - Pekiti Tirsia Kali - Knife vs Gun
          You know I don't have to tell you this is what my camp has been training and preaching for years.

          Experience is the best learning tool and the world is the best teacher. Reading you posts sounds to me like you've had a fair share of both in the past couple years Tom.

          Cake, the reason he has that physique isn't just what he trains but how he trains. It's especially good when doing any weapons training to make sure that your body is behind every movement.
          1. Because if you are evading or hollowing out, you don't want to leave ANYTHING behind. It will get "hit".
          2. You want all that power behind your "hit" not just the arm or shoulder.

          Good stuff Tom.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Tant01 View Post
            See old dude waving his hands around 1:17 to 1:20. Yeah that shit is the bomb.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by kingoftheforest View Post
              See old dude waving his hands around 1:17 to 1:20. Yeah that shit is the bomb.
              I especially appreciate the basic foot jamming, knee locks (only alluded to) and that awesome two handed push.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by cakegirl View Post
                If physique is anything to go by, what Tom Yum is training must be very effective...... the man is an Adonis.
                He sent you pictures of that body builder? HUh? me too... What a skank. I'm taking Tom off my friends list... LMAO

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Tant01 View Post
                  I especially appreciate the basic foot jamming, knee locks (only alluded to) and that awesome two handed push.

                  That 2 handed push can also be condensed down into a shoulder strike.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I've been thinking of undertaking a project which looks at kinesthetic cognates (yeah, I just made that shit up) between the knife/weapons arts of Insular S.E. Asia and the unarmed forms of...well...kick boxing in Continental S.E. Asia, but with Yaw-Yan and this...I may have to redefine my categories. Ultimate goal is to compare and contrast movement in order to trace etymologic origins of the arts and maybe create a map of how the arts spread and if there is an ancestor art.

                    I've found very few people look into martial arts as a legit thing to study in the social sciences...I really want to try and change that a little. I look at books by Draeger and think...this stuff is written with real Anthro overtones...I could probably write a grant to do stuff that I love. Ah...maybe one day.

                    By the way...what was THAT? It wasn't KK...


                    Oh...and hi guys.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Dekiti Tirsia, begot Pekiti Tirsia, in 1974 and is now SinaTirsiaWali.

                      SinaTirsiaWali is the earliest version that represents the actual training we got in 1974 by the founder, Leo Gaje, Jr. What is real is that the system of Dekiti Tirsia was taught to Leo by his uncle Jerson 'Nene' Tortal. The system comprised of weapon training and was simple enough in that you continuously trained in leaning how to parry. What Leo did was to add his ingenious knowledge from the training and renamed it Pekiti Tirsia, and his explanation to me in 1974 was that people knew the term pekiti from Spanish mean small, "Small distance" was the method of practice and was introduced to me by Leo and Frank Orgaga in a demo at the Jersey City Medical Center back then.

                      This was long after my search of "real" martial arts, when I attended that demo I immediately inquired as to the origin of this art. At the time Leo employed me for my skill as administrator to promote the art as President of his organization. I declined the position as president, but suggested I would do whatever necessary to promote the Philippine culture, since I already understood that you learn from your friends more so then our enemies, as karate was introduced earlier in America.

                      More importantly I also understood that training weapons was paramount to real protection skills, and was the best type of training, since the bad guy always has a weapon. Rarely does some one threaten you with a fist in the street, in truth the bad guy always has something to hit you with.

                      So why is this so important to understand, simply because you train the eye with a faster more deadly training, and one begins to understand that reaction times are faster when training properly, and the body moves instinctively, without hesitation, without thought. Furthermore, the most important part of our training is the footwork, not currently shared in Pekiti Tirsia, and now we refer to this training as SinaTirsiaWali.

                      Sinawali means to weave, and Tirsia, meaning complete so Leo and I renamed what we derived from his system was SinaTirsiaWali, only because it makes some sense, and more importantly we share the system of learning the protection side of skill first, since everyone pretty much knows how to hit, it's more important though to learn how not to be hit!

                      And, what I've discovered in my 36 years of practice, is that leaning how to parry is most important. Visit eBay and you'll see a photo of Filipinos practicing their parry's in the Army camps during WW2. And of course they are using real blades. This is the most efficient method of traiing for an armed bladed attacker. Learn this parry techniques on the DVD from Leo's uncle, Jerson Tortal at our web site A Pencak Silat, Cultural Exchange for Indonesia / Malaysia / Philippines

                      And we still continue to stress the three most important methods of all martial art's training, footwork, body machnics, and how to parry. I continue to offer a five day program for instructors, many of whom upon working with us realized the same importance in training for reality.

                      After you learn to parry the stick, then you use steel, then you use the sharp blade. Footwork, body mechanics and how to parry are the three major elements in Dekiti Tirsia, Pekiti Tirsia, and SinaTirsiaWali. (Please visit Testimony From Those That Know Me & Have Worked With Us. for the approval of our study system granted by Leo Gaje, Jr. the founder of Pekiti Tirsia, and be sure to visit Kali Silat New for more.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Dekiti Tirsia, begot Pekiti Tirsia, in 1974 and is now SinaTirsiaWali.

                        SinaTirsiaWali is the earliest version that represents the actual training we got in 1974 by the founder, Leo Gaje, Jr. What is real is that the system of Dekiti Tirsia was taught to Leo by his uncle Jerson 'Nene' Tortal. The system comprised of weapon training and was simple enough in that you continuously trained in leaning how to parry. What Leo did was to add his ingenious knowledge from the training and renamed it Pekiti Tirsia, and his explanation to me in 1974 was that people knew the term pekiti from Spanish mean small, "Small distance" was the method of practice and was introduced to me by Leo and Frank Orgaga in a demo at the Jersey City Medical Center back then.

                        This was long after my search of "real" martial arts, when I attended that demo I immediately inquired as to the origin of this art. At the time Leo employed me for my skill as administrator to promote the art as President of his organization. I declined the position as president, but suggested I would do whatever necessary to promote the Philippine culture, since I already understood that you learn from your friends more so then our enemies, as karate was introduced earlier in America.

                        More importantly I also understood that training weapons was paramount to real protection skills, and was the best type of training, since the bad guy always has a weapon. Rarely does some one threaten you with a fist in the street, in truth the bad guy always has something to hit you with.

                        So why is this so important to understand, simply because you train the eye with a faster more deadly training, and one begins to understand that reaction times are faster when training properly, and the body moves instinctively, without hesitation, without thought. Furthermore, the most important part of our training is the footwork, not currently shared in Pekiti Tirsia, and now we refer to this training as SinaTirsiaWali.

                        Sinawali means to weave, and Tirsia, meaning complete so Leo and I renamed what we derived from his system was SinaTirsiaWali, only because it makes some sense, and more importantly we share the system of learning the protection side of skill first, since everyone pretty much knows how to hit, it's more important though to learn how not to be hit!

                        And, what I've discovered in my 36 years of practice, is that leaning how to parry is most important. Visit eBay and you'll see a photo of Filipinos practicing their parry's in the Army camps during WW2. And of course they are using real blades. This is the most efficient method of traiing for an armed bladed attacker. Learn this parry techniques on the DVD from Leo's uncle, Jerson Tortal at our web site A Pencak Silat, Cultural Exchange for Indonesia / Malaysia / Philippines

                        And we still continue to stress the three most important methods of all martial art's training, footwork, body machnics, and how to parry. I continue to offer a five day program for instructors, many of whom upon working with us realized the same importance in training for reality.

                        After you learn to parry the stick, then you use steel, then you use the sharp blade. Footwork, body mechanics and how to parry are the three major elements in Dekiti Tirsia, Pekiti Tirsia, and SinaTirsiaWali. (Please visit Testimony From Those That Know Me & Have Worked With Us. for the approval of our study system granted by Leo Gaje, Jr. the founder of Pekiti Tirsia, and be sure to visit Kali Silat New for more.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Tom Yum View Post

                          The art of pekiti tirsia kali means close quarter fighting, roughly (my tagalog is rusty). It is a comprehensive weapon fighting art that addresses the question: what if someone grabs my gun but more importantly it addresses the question: what if someone pulls out a knife and even simpler: how can I use a blade in self defense.

                          I'm just getting started in this art. Enjoying it as well!

                          PS - Im still into muaythai and exotic grappling, fear not


                          YouTube - Pekiti Tirsia Kali - Knife vs Gun
                          The art of pekiti tirsia kali means close quarter fighting, roughly (my tagalog is rusty).

                          correction:
                          pekiti tirsia kali is not a tagalog dialect..... maybe its an indonesian or malaysian something..... maybe i dont know...
                          i can understand Filipino dialects like Tagalog, Hiligaynon, Karay-a, and Cebuano..... but never heard of that pekiti tirsia kali......
                          truely kali is an indonesian/malaysian term maybe.....
                          even arnis de mano is not a Filipino dialect term.....
                          arnis is a stick weapon exclusive in philippines
                          but the term "de mano" is more on a spanish term

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