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  • #16
    Shaolin

    I feal that we can all learn a grea deal from the Shaolin. I my self have been learning many arts of the Shaolin. From book and refrence. I would like to take a trip and visit a temple but right now I dont have the cash. back to the point.... Just from using basic principlas and techniques I feal heather and quicker! You may not get all the benifits that you would if you were to train at a temple but the effects are unimaginable. But I must go, sorry it is so short and hard to read but I have to type a report due tomorrow. Ill inform you on the art of thirty punches, the iron fist, Shaolin medical wine, and other tips I have piced up. Lata. good luck!

    Comment

    #17
    hm...i don't know much about their healing arts or anything.. I do know however that the shaolin practiced jeet kune do before bruce did.. they called it "building your own dragon".. they trained with anyone they could and absorbed what is useful...

    Comment

    • #18
      Originally posted by quietanswer
      hm...i don't know much about their healing arts or anything.. I do know however that the shaolin practiced jeet kune do before bruce did.. they called it "building your own dragon".. they trained with anyone they could and absorbed what is useful...
      This is going away from the original thread, but I think back in the days effective meant you fought and won. People didn't go to the guy who lost to learn how to fight. Fighting wasn't about styles this and styles that. Originally the "styles" were effective, because the instructor had fought and won. I don't think "styles" were of that big importance back then. I just can't picture a Filipino warrior worrying that his style would be "impure" if he were to add something to his art. Bruce just put alot of people in today's world and society into check.

      Originally posted by quietanswer
      that's pretty funny but in all seriousness, if you are ever in Missouri, you can stay at my place...hope you don't mind half naked dancing girls and big clouds of ..well..incense.. (ahem)
      My kind of setting. Do they swing sticks as well.



      Comment

      • #19
        Originally posted by Chad W. Getz
        This is going away from the original thread, but I think back in the days effective meant you fought and won. People didn't go to the guy who lost to learn how to fight. Fighting wasn't about styles this and styles that. Originally the "styles" were effective, because the instructor had fought and won. I don't think "styles" were of that big importance back then. I just can't picture a Filipino warrior worrying that his style would be "impure" if he were to add something to his art. Bruce just put alot of people in today's world and society into check.
        [/B]
        Absolutely! As I've heard both Pak Vic and Uncle Bill de Thouars say: "If I'm standing and you're on the ground then today my art is better than yours."

        There is no "ultimate" style or system. As Guro Dan Inosanto has said at seminars: "Anyone can beat anyone else on any given day."

        A fight is chaos ... period. It doesn't make any sense and the outcome is pretty much unpredictable due to the number of elements involved. The skill, experience, training of the fighters will of course be variables. Luck and environment will also have a bearing. The condition of the fighters (i.e.: does one have a headache, ear ache, hangover, etc.) will have a bearing. These are just the most obvious. Many of the variables involved change from day to day if not hour to hour. And, many times, any one of these multitudes of variables can be the deciding factor in who wins that particular fight.

        All our training and experience does is increase our odds of survival ... they guarantee nothing; but "I'd rather have them and not need them than need them and not have them" :-)

        Later, Mike

        Comment

        • #20
          Bull Sh*T

          No offence but thats bull shit and I think that you have not gotten the point of my post. You can learn alot from then NOT JUST FIGHTING. Shure it can help u out but im saying they can teach you about vitality, falling with out getting hurt, punching walls and not fealing it.(Iron Fist) Focusing you chi and using it to you advantage in healing and combat. Kid you take one of your so called heros and put them up to a shaolin master he is going downno matter how much (So called) experiance he has. its the fact of the matter. Sorry for trying to help u I just thuat it would do u good in becoming a faster opponent in stick fighting. Because it works great in boxing so far. To the rest of you im sorry, I just hate ignorance, and the refusal of seeing the point im trying to make.
          thanx

          [Edited by ChiKungMan on 11-02-2000 at 06:33 AM]

          Comment

          • #21
            Re: Bull Sh*T

            Originally posted by ChiKungMan
            No offence but thats bull shit and I think that you have not gotten the point of my post. You can learn alot from then NOT JUST FIGHTING. Shure it can help u out but im saying they can teach you about vitality, falling with out getting hurt, punching walls and not fealing it.(Iron Fist) Focusing you chi and using it to you advantage in healing and combat. Kid you take one of your so called heros and put them up to a shaolin master he is going downno matter how much (So called) experiance he has. its the fact of the matter. Sorry for trying to help u I just thuat it would do u good in becoming a faster opponent in stick fighting. Because it works great in boxing so far. To the rest of you im sorry, I just hate ignorance, and the refusal of seeing the point im trying to make.
            thanx

            [Edited by ChiKungMan on 11-02-2000 at 06:33 AM]
            Alright ... so who were you responding to? I saw no one who refuted your post. As for Shaolin, one of the guy's I regularly train with, Willem de Thouars, has trained with real Shaolin players (and was doing it before many of us were born) and is the first to acknowledge their ability.

            So, was your post just a troll or were you actually looking for legitimate discussion? If you were actually looking for discussion, then you need to learn some etiquette.

            Regards, Mike

            Comment

              • #22
              Chad: Hah, they don't SWING sticks, so to speak.. but they swing, and sticks are involved..

              as far as the shaolin not having styles as an importance..I think you are right.. but a friend who studies kung fu (good kung fu..they fight hard.. they aren't dancing around doing 1 flying spin jump kicks after another, nor do they look like bad kung fu movies doing animal styles like superheroes) once told me that it depended on your place in the temple. The warrior priest, seeking enlightenment through warriorship alone, learned any and every technique. He said the standard monk, however, would learn a style based on his particular bent..and mostly train for perfection in that one area..he would specialize to make up for all his time doing tasks other than training..perhaps someone else can expand upon this..

              Sikal: I agree..but the whole "anyone can beat up anyone regardless of skill" thing is only a basic truth.. and that if paul vunak comes through my door in a rage, I probably will go into the fight having accepted my death, and begin fighting from that empty place..cause, on any given day, people like Vu and Guro Inosanto had better have one friggin BAD hangover if I'm to beat em.. But, Like I said, I still agree with your words, mostly.

              Chikung: This forum is awesome. People here will answer just about anything you could nee dhelp with..Chad and Mike are a perfect example of this willingness..both have detailed drills for me in writing as well as served as great walls for me to bounce ideas off...

              You'd do better here if you were slightly less volatile.

              Comment

              • #23
                Originally posted by quietanswer
                Sikal: I agree..but the whole "anyone can beat up anyone regardless of skill" thing is only a basic truth.. and that if paul vunak comes through my door in a rage, I probably will go into the fight having accepted my death, and begin fighting from that empty place..cause, on any given day, people like Vu and Guro Inosanto had better have one friggin BAD hangover if I'm to beat em.. But, Like I said, I still agree with your words, mostly.
                LOL ... how right you are. But this is the exact same principle. Vu and Guro Dan have a lot of training and experience which greatly improves their odds in any fight ... especially in a fight against someone with a lot less training and experience (i.e.: you or me :-)

                Later, Mike

                Comment

                • #24
                  Im not votile at all. And yes they were telling me I was wrong by totaly seeing through what I was trying to say. More or less putting words in my mouth. but only when people open there eyes to different things will this chat be better. the point he made about us learning from bruce lee. Well who the heck do u think bruce lee and the rest of the world got thir fignting styles from.(The Shaolin)And no not anyone can beat anyone. Its all about preparing for a fight. If someone dosent then they are going to lose. You what to have hight disopline when you train. Another thing that the saolin aslo have. I personaly have gone to see them a bunch of times when the have come to the US. So I got an upclose personaly view of just what they can do. I wanted to share that with you people but, I got several posts telling me all this about it not mattering in a fight. Thats the ignorance im talking about.
                  later.

                  Comment

                  • #25
                    Originally posted by ChiKungMan
                    You what to have hight disopline when you train. Another thing that the saolin aslo have. I personaly have gone to see them a bunch of times when the have come to the US.
                    OK ... so you've seen them a bunch of times. I believe you're absolutely right about discipline in training. So, tell us, where do you train? How long have you been training and how often do you train?

                    Just curious.

                    Regards, Mike

                    Comment

                      • #26
                      chikung: 1: I didn't see anyone disagree with you.
                      2: The shaolin didn't give everyone their fighting styles. I assure you, men were fighting hand to hand, and sharing the knowledge, long before the shaolin temple ever stood. Admittedly, many, many martial arts have their roots in chinese fight knowledge. Lots of stylists balk when they here this, but historically, it's often true. However, the world did not learn to fight from the shaolin..likewise, the world's martial systems were not all originally influenced by the chinese. some have very little influence.
                      3: Martial art does require some sense of discipline, though the definition has a wide range of context.. What one fighter calls discipline another fighter might say is a mental confinement..and have a whole different idea of what discipline is necessry. Nonetheless, since martial art involves discipline, I'd assume you'd have some. Tantrums don't show much discipline. "later" as a closing statement in a post does not show much discipline. Victimish attitudes, are likewise.

                      Really. Just settle down, and permit people to disagree with you some. It doesn't matter if they HAD disagreed. Chill. The worst thing that come from their closed minds (if they had them) would be that they didn't learn from you..which doesn't hurt you in the least. I log on here because i want to see where people disagree with me. if they just agreed to every post: a) I'd learn nothing b) noone would post, cause there wouldn't be a reason. we'd all just nod at our screens.

                      [Edited by quietanswer on 11-02-2000 at 01:44 PM]

                      Comment

                      • #27
                        To answear Sikals question, I train with a local group Shaolin Kung Fu, I picked up chi kung later. Now I train in boxing with a local gym one town over from me. I train everyday in Shaolin Kung Fu, and principals. Like meditaion, breathing techniques, Chi Kung. boxing I try to practice every day. I have mixed the different skills I have learned in with boxing and they are working great. After doing one exercise in Chi Kung your sopost to rub your hand togeather as fast as you can. After doing the meditation exercise for 30 minuts I did it and it got so hot I could smell burnt skin. Before doing these exercises I always fealt sick and tired, now I feal awake and energised. Also there is a thing called mind body coordination. you can do incredible thingy with this once you get the hang of it. Some examples are the iron ring(put your thumb and pointer finger togeather touch them witha moderate pressure and no one can evenbundge them. Aslo ther is the unbendable arm.(Somone alot stronger than you wont beable to bent your are witch at the time is totaly relaxed.) the important thing is to make shure the person is stronger than you else it wont work. Both of these took me a while to master, you have to get the right feeling. then there are other involving a person standing straight up and two people can budge them off the ground. There is a similar one involving stiing. I havent gotten that far yet but im staring to get the right fealing. What is the right feeling? In the case of the unbendible are it feals like you are extends out ward a mile, kinda numy. The iron ring feals like your fingers have been welded togeather. By using unbendable are technique, you can over power somone in a wrestling match easly. Just get the right fealing and your set. One time I was playing football with my friends on the beach. My friend piced me to cover because he weighed more than me. But using these techniques I could easly push him over. He was staring to get pissed, it was kinda funny, and the first time I actully applied it to a real life situation. Every time I tell someone about this( like a friend) they dont belive me until I show them.

                        medical wine
                        herbs
                        ru xiang, mo yeo, chuan hong hua, gui wei, zhi ke, chuan gong, tao ren, mu xiang, chen xiang, jin jie, chi yao, ji geng, zhi zi, hu gu, dan pi.
                        go to any herb shop in a china town in your city
                        take 12g of each ingredients and soak the mixture in 3 pints of white rice wine. I herd of people using vodka tho. After 3 months, dicard reidue.I herd the longer you wait the better it gets. Rub on externaly injured parts of your body. dont let it touch water ofr at least 3 hour. this is essencial in developing the iron fist, witch is not practiced today because u can break bones or kill with one punch. But I still find it useful no matter what I was told.
                        But belive me if you are going to practice it use the medical wine on your fist when you get and you will an injury. Definetly look into the mind body coordination stuff. Its very interesting.






                        Comment

                        • #28
                          Originally posted by ChiKungMan
                          To answear Sikals question, I train with a local group Shaolin Kung Fu, I picked up chi kung later. Now I train in boxing with a local gym one town over from me. I train everyday in Shaolin Kung Fu, and principals. Like meditaion, breathing techniques, Chi Kung. boxing I try to practice every day. I have mixed the different skills I have learned in with boxing and they are working great. After doing one exercise in Chi Kung your sopost to rub your hand togeather as fast as you can. After doing the meditation exercise for 30 minuts I did it and it got so hot I could smell burnt skin. Before doing these exercises I always fealt sick and tired, now I feal awake and energised. Also there is a thing called mind body coordination. you can do incredible thingy with this once you get the hang of it. Some examples are the iron ring(put your thumb and pointer finger togeather touch them witha moderate pressure and no one can evenbundge them. Aslo ther is the unbendable arm.(Somone alot stronger than you wont beable to bent your are witch at the time is totaly relaxed.) the important thing is to make shure the person is stronger than you else it wont work. Both of these took me a while to master, you have to get the right feeling. then there are other involving a person standing straight up and two people can budge them off the ground. There is a similar one involving stiing. I havent gotten that far yet but im staring to get the right fealing. What is the right feeling? In the case of the unbendible are it feals like you are extends out ward a mile, kinda numy. The iron ring feals like your fingers have been welded togeather. By using unbendable are technique, you can over power somone in a wrestling match easly. Just get the right fealing and your set. One time I was playing football with my friends on the beach. My friend piced me to cover because he weighed more than me. But using these techniques I could easly push him over. He was staring to get pissed, it was kinda funny, and the first time I actully applied it to a real life situation. Every time I tell someone about this( like a friend) they dont belive me until I show them.

                          medical wine
                          herbs
                          ru xiang, mo yeo, chuan hong hua, gui wei, zhi ke, chuan gong, tao ren, mu xiang, chen xiang, jin jie, chi yao, ji geng, zhi zi, hu gu, dan pi.
                          go to any herb shop in a china town in your city
                          take 12g of each ingredients and soak the mixture in 3 pints of white rice wine. I herd of people using vodka tho. After 3 months, dicard reidue.I herd the longer you wait the better it gets. Rub on externaly injured parts of your body. dont let it touch water ofr at least 3 hour. this is essencial in developing the iron fist, witch is not practiced today because u can break bones or kill with one punch. But I still find it useful no matter what I was told.
                          But belive me if you are going to practice it use the medical wine on your fist when you get and you will an injury. Definetly look into the mind body coordination stuff. Its very interesting.
                          Well good. It's nice to hear that someone practices what they preach. However, while I have an immense amount of respect for the Shaolin and the Chinese martial arts ... they aren't the only way to get to the place you're talking about. All martial arts (I don't count sport or exercise arts in this) lead to the same place. As an example, it took me about 3 minutes to get the unbendable arm once my instructor explained the principle.

                          It's really amazing to see the same principles over and over again whether they are being presented from the perspective of Kali, Silat, Tai Chi, Hsing-I, Chi Gung, Bagua, Goju-Ryu, Ninjutsu, Judo, Kenpo, etc.

                          They each have a different way of approaching, presenting, and applying the principles, but they all utilize the same principles and the more exposure you get to various arts, the more you realize this.

                          One of the things I have always admired about the Shaolin was that they cross-trained.

                          You're telling us that we should check out Shaolin arts (which some of us have, incidentally) ... do you train in anything outside of the Chinese arts? If not, then you're missing out :-)

                          Regards, Mike

                          Comment

                          • #29
                            I totaly agree with you.
                            Body Mind And Modem: Cool Ki Tricks
                            http://www.bodymindandmodem.com/CoolKi/CoolKi.html

                            This is a great site for refrence! If you are going to try any of these things make sure you do them with a partner. Amd help each other get the right feeling.

                            Comment

                            • #30
                              WTF?!?!?!?!?!

                              WTF???? 24 hours off the comp and I missed a brawl??? ChikungMan, I think you made a post regarding the Shaolin monks and QA made a reference about BL and JKD, and I responded to him with a quote from his reply. Go check it out. But somehow I figure the reference you made after was either to myself or someone else here. You did make a comment on fighting though, and that is what I am interested in....Sorry, man, I was going to write something, and I went back to get a quote and re-read this, so I figure I'll take this quote by quote. I figure you mean me because of the stickfighting comment below. If I assume wrong, than I make an ass out of myself and we all get to smile in the end. Hopefully, I don't bruise anyone's ego here beyond repair. I was a little irratated at first, but oh well...Actually I was irratated when I first read the post, but relaxed after reading the rest, but when I was commenting I re-read the following post below and had to respond differently.

                              >>No offence but thats bull shit and I think that you have >>not gotten the point of my post.

                              I didn't try to get the point, nor did I claim to. As I stated above, I was replying with quote to QA.

                              >>You can learn alot from then NOT JUST FIGHTING. Shure it >>can help u out but im saying they can teach you about >>vitality, falling with out getting hurt, punching walls >>and not fealing it.(Iron Fist) Focusing you chi and using >>it to you advantage in healing and combat.

                              But if you can't do it in fighting...is it good for fighting? Read this carefully...the question is "if you can't do it in fighting...is it good for fighting?", and I did not say "if you can't do it in fighting...is it any good? There is no doubt that I will someday trip and fall and slap my head wishing I knew how to fall without getting my body or ego hurt, and that will be a lesson that I choose to learn the hard way.(This is an attempt at comedy, just to show that I am not flaming red right now) .

                              >>Kid you take one of your so called heros and put them up >>to a shaolin master he is going downno matter how much >>(So called) experiance he has. its the fact of the >>matter.

                              Ok, so let's not set up fights between our "heroes". I don't play that game, and my hero is myself. You will never, and I mean never, hear me tell you stories about heroes. Why, because I never met one. Sure stories about all the stickfighters and death matches are cool, but I have never seen one, so I am forced to actually find out myself what I can and can not do in fighting. I can tell you about how my grandmother's cousin rips quarters in half, pounds nails into the table and pulls them out, pry dried and young coconuts open with his barehands, knocked out bulls and dragged them to the fishing hole for his workout, etc., etc. Will that impress you? It doesn't matter. My interest is in f-i-g-h-t-i-n-g. And if someone challenges me in that area, than I am trained accordingly. But, sorry, if the challenge is in ripping quarters or cutting watermelons on my stomach, or whatever, I will probably lose. I don't think Floro ever said, I will use my ability to rip this coconut open to rip his eye out. If thats what he wanted to do, he would do it in his death matches. BTW, don't consider this a "hero" story. It is something that happened with in the past 50 years that many many people will support seeing. It doesn't affect me too much though, because I have never seen it.

                              >>Sorry for trying to help u I just thuat it would do u >>good in becoming a faster opponent in stick fighting. >>Because it works great in boxing so far.

                              What works well in boxing?

                              >>To the rest of you im sorry, I just hate ignorance, and >>the refusal of seeing the point im trying to make.

                              But isn't hating someone elses' opinion also ignorance? For the record, I never disagreed with what you said. I didn't see enough information there to disagree or agree with you on. That is why I didn't respond to you originally. BTW, I didn't see anyone here "REFUSE TO SEE YOUR WAY", just some people learning different things from what you said.

                              Anyways, I just wanted to clear things up for you in case you had the wrong idea. No hard feelings?

                              And in closing, one of my favorite sayings...
                              "What one man would or would not do, doesn't mean another man should or should not do."

                              Well, I re-read the post again, and realize that it might not have been me that you were talking to and yet another suspect.

                              [Edited by Chad W. Getz on 11-03-2000 at 04:05 AM]

                              Comment

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