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  • #16
    I have had knife training in both MMA and Streetwise Karate. I have practiced with my friends just using a Knife hand for hours.

    So basically my experience is not so great. But do I want RL experience?? heck no. When I was about 10 - 12 some guys in a park wanted my shoes and one pulled a knife. I ran .. and I would do the same now.

    As you are all saying, your training may save your life if you are corner'd one day and are forced to defend yourself, but dont trick yourself into thinking you can disarm a single attack let alone multiple attackers with certainty.

    Also someone mention'd ... would you fight off multiple attackers to save your family ... or to save yourself ... as you are fighting for your/their lives. What about your attackers??? are they not fighting for their lives as well?

    If you havent already check out the knife post in this forum it also, has some good discusion.

    Try it with chalk .. mix it up (throw a few punches before the jab) .. dont let your attacker know what your gona do, and if you still have the same success, then perhaps your style can teach what it is claiming.

    Jesse

    P.S This is by no way a dig at your style .. it sounds VERY effective and if I had the chance I would like to try it.

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    • #17
      I agree with a couple of people. Atienza Kali seems like it has a lot of solid stuff. RE the comment about skill/viciousness: I didn't mean to take skill out of the equation, and if your strategy depends on luck, you're screwed anyway. However, mindset is at least as important as skill in real life. Skill just makes a dangerous person more dangerous. My only major gripe with the video was that it showed the defender getting away totally unscathed every time. Part of dealing with a blade is accepting that you will probably be cut. I also didn't notice any rear hand attacks with the knife. Grab and stab is very common as well. You mentioned the ice pick downwards stab as being the most lethal knife attack, and I have heard the same thing. However, I would think that it would be delivered with a grab or when the target is not mobile, rather than as an opening move. Every time I have trained with someone unskilled in blade use, they try to grab my jacket and rip open a new oriface. Just my observation in training.

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      • #18
        Before training with Atienza Kali, I served in the US Marines for 5 years. In the military, we were trained to fight with bayonets and/or KA-BAR fighting knives. We were also taught to handle knives with blade down (ice-pick grip). From experience, holding the blade down is a more powerful attack than blade up BUT blade up is just as deadly.


        All the Atienza Guros and I have been friends for a while before I started to train with them. Guro Carl invited me over to check out one of their training sessions. I found an interest in their style of knife fighting considering I was also trained in knives in the military. I asked Guro Carl if he can show me some manuevers that I can use. Instead he threw me a metal training blade and requested that I attack him in any way that I know. Guro Carl knew I had military experience with knives and he also knew I had my fair share of "street survival" if you may. I attacked him with much intent of stabbing, slicing, tearing, punching, grabing, and just all out street fighting. With every move I did, he had a counter move with a kill manuever, disarm to kill manuever, joint lock to kill manuever, trap to kill manuever, and the list goes on.
        The Atienza Kali system had me convinced that it is VERY EFFECTIVE in almost any situation. Since then, I have been training in Atienza Kali and plan to take this as far as I go with it, especially in the blade portion of the system.

        Given my experiences in the past and training with blades, I will never say I am invincible (I am far from it) but I can say I will do what it takes to survive in a life threating situation to the best of my ablility. Having the skill of Atienza Kali is a plus in my book of survival.

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        • #19
          A metal training blade seems unlrealistic to me .. I mean .. if whoever .. did not block successfully a strike to the head .. it could still kill them .. not to mention to the ribs/gut .. it could still pierce or seriously damnage someone. I would not train "Realistically" with a butter knife if my opponient was trying his hardest to stab/cut me.

          Can you honestly say .. that this time you speak of you attacked with all agression and intent on getting your stab in .. even if it did hurt him? If so .. that is impressive.

          Keep up the good conversation ... its good too hear both sides .

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          • #20
            During live blade drills and training blade sparring, I have walked away with many cuts and bruises.... The key word here is "I have walked away" and that's what it's all about, SURVIVAL. We train in real time with metal training blades or real blades to get the mind set of YOU CAN AND WILL GET HURT. This being in the back of my mind, manuevers have to be precise and accurate. One wrong move and I will be cut or bruised of which I have been. I have been cut over my eye, knuckles racked, pulled muscles, bruised all over due to real time training in "realistic" situations.

            In sparring, we go all out to make the situation as real as possible. The only thing that we don't do, is obviously KILL one another, but when a killing manuever is executed, it is also acknowledged. Me training with people who have the same mentality of a streetfighter due to their experiences, there is no half-assing in our training. I don't think we would have it any less and I wouldn't want it any other way but realism.

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            • #21
              Atienza Kali has a very strong emphasis on footwork and body mechanics. If you unsuccessfully block a strike we train to try and avoid the path(s) of the blade. In my opinion as a female, I would rather be in a situation with some sort of training than none at all. Not to say that I think I can take on any attacker with what I've learned in Atienza Kali, I just walk with a little more confidence.

              Teresa

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              • #22
                WOW .. I should continue to push just to get more of you to join in the discussion!!! haha Just kidding.

                I think you have got your messages across. And its good to see so many joining in!

                I cant really say till I have tried to stab one of you myself. But I still belive what I belive and you believe what you believe. Both are valid till we are proven otherwise I suppose.

                Jess

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                • #23
                  Jesse7,

                  You are right. it always comes down to proving it in combat.
                  But don't try to just say"I am gonna stab you now", to one of the Atienza boys or there students. It is still not realistic. Try to mug one of them or threaten a family member and see what happens. It has always brought out the best in them. Who wouldn't have the best brought out is those situations? But Good Luck to you if you try.(ha ha. Just kidding guys). Great discussion folks. Great points made. Good minds.

                  Ryan S.

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                  • #24
                    Hello Again,

                    I 've been busy so I have not been able to post for a short time. Anyway, the grab and stab, grab and hit, push and hit, are probably the most common of attacks on the street. In the video "Surviving Edged Weapon" (originally intended only for LEO) it highlights many of these attacks, as well it includes a short clip showing inmates working on the downward stab in the prison yard!
                    As for metal training blades, Realism works, there is no way around that. I have been poked, cut, and pommeled by metal, wooden, hard rubber, and even plastic training blades and I have to admit they all hurt. But the metal trainers simulate realism and remind us that it is a real blade all of the time. In fact I believe even at the DogBrothers Gathering they have sparring sessions utilizing the metal trainers.
                    Check out more trainers at



                    There is also an article on making a training blade on the warriorcraft website.

                    Train Hard it is the Way!

                    Guro Steve - Kayan Dalawa Guro Sayoc Kali-

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