Panantukan

[Limbas]

Now I know... panantukan and panajacman started with the Lucaylucays.
Btw, Where exactly is vitayan island?

[danjuandesiga]

Evasive angling and countering

Panantukan 101 - limb destructions from the jab-cross feed

[serveinsilence]

sun helmet:First of all, you nor I can not claim to know what the ancient islanders considered themselves to be. Perhaps they were Hindu, after all, the main god was a derivative of Batala. So thank you for acknowledging that they were NOT "Filipinos" first.

sreve in silence:Batala/Bathala- the ancient pagan diety of thearly settlers..
SIS:now the argument in all of this is the fact that we connote SIS:settlers by their religion..they can either by Islam of Hindu or whatever..but the settlers considers themselves settlers first..this is evid..ent even to this day...Filipinos would say when asked" Are you Filipino? the answer would actually be Yes from Davao..yes from Ilocos...yes from Cotabato...this is by where they came from or by what tribe..yes..Illongo...Cebuano...Tagabli...Maguindanao




S.H:So knowing about guns is not a martial art?
How about guerilla tactics?
How about surviving through the use of violence or ambush?
How about hundreds of years of ACCOUNTED incidents where the sword was used WITH skill and effectiveness?

SIS:I did not say knowing guns and the detailed account of Fil-Muslims is not MA. i was making a point that even today..there are no FMA instructors or teachers that i have met or heard of who hail from these said parts...and by the way Mr Kayanan. when i was 7..my dad and i traveled from Ipil Zamboanga to Zamboanga City..we were in an Army Checkpoint arround 2 am, when armed muslim insurgents attacked..not even taking into consideration the civillians that were ther..it was a ambush..but my dad and i survived..we are not martial artists at that time.....



SH:Trying to disguise a false premise by using another language does not make your statements any more logical.
If your argument stood on solid ground you wouldn't be trying to disguise it to those who don't speak that particular dialect.

SIS:i was merely making a point that the island is divided in dialects and that even you do not understand these major dialects..could this be the reason why there is so much inaccuracy in translation especially from the southern mindanao region?

SH:For example, here's something in plain english:
There were thousands of Moro warriors who knew how to use a weapon better than most "FMA practitioners".

SIS:Moros are not warriors but are somehow like the terrorists we have now..they do not care if they die as long as they can inflict damage based on a religion that will reward such actions..take this for example.in Kiamba So.Cotabato..a detachment of 12 marines was attacked..8 marines died..but the others were able to fend the attackers off..when daybreak came..they saw more than 50 muslims dead..now based on your previous statement..were they effective? it seemed yes at night..but when the sun came out..they were not..but if you ask the muslim commanders they will always say yes we killed 8 out of 12 marines the mission was a success..why? they do not count their loss as loo but still a gain since those who died are now martys are are in paradise with all those virgins...is it FMA (de fuego or kali) ..you tell me the answer.

SH:and another:
NEVER stated that FMA is exclusively from Moros,[/B] but stating that Moros do not have an inkling of FMA is an illogical conclusion. They may not have called it FMA, in fact not many people did until a few years ago, but rest assured they knew how to use their weapons as well as any "FMA practitioner".

--Rafael--[/QUOTE]

SISI am aware that FMA are not for moros..and i am merely saying that OUT OF MY EXPERIENCE ..i have not met or heard of a moro FMA teacher or whatever..

Just FYI..Muslims in the philippines do not want to be called moros..it's a derogatory word to them like the "N" word in the US...just FYI

[Sun_Helmet]

SIS:now the argument in all of this is the fact that we connote settlers by their religion..they can either by Islam of Hindu or whatever..but the settlers considers themselves settlers first..

Yes, that was my point but as you read your own postings it is you who brings in this dividing line between religions in the way you entered this thread and apply it to who can lay claim to FMA.

If all these various religious sects are funneled into being ALL FILIPINO... then how do you defend that what they do as far as violence is concerned is NOT their version of FMA?

..but my dad and i survived..we are not martial artists at that time.....

And how does this counter that the ones who attacked you did not have a martial art? Someone taught them how to kill correct?

Removing your obvious aversion to those who practice Islam, let's take a separate group - do the Buntoc Igorots have a martial art?

i was merely making a point that the island is divided in dialects and that even you do not understand these major dialects..could this be the reason why there is so much inaccuracy in translation especially from the southern mindanao region?

The translation in martial art that is universal is its efficacy.
It has nothing to do with dialect, no one is talking when the blades start moving. If I wanted a translation of a dialect I would merely ask a friend from Davao or a relative from Pampanga or another from Ilocos Norte. It is very easy these days to translate languages.

Moros are not warriors but are somehow like the terrorists we have now..they do not care if they die as long as they can inflict damage based on a religion that will reward such actions..

Terrorists are warriors. Otherwise they would be NON combatants. Btw, I also specifically noted Moro "warriors" in my post.

is it FMA (de fuego or kali) ..you tell me the answer.

Are you trying to tell me that FMA is a christian martial art? You're confusing your premise from above again.

I am aware that FMA are not for moros..and i am merely saying that OUT OF MY EXPERIENCE ..i have not met or heard of a moro FMA teacher or whatever..

Have you ever seen a picture of a Moro with a sword?

These guys know FMA?



Have you ever seen a Moro sword?



Have you ever read a book accounting Moro efficiency in battle?

http://www.bakbakan.com/swishkb.html

Just FYI..Muslims in the philippines do not want to be called moros..it's a derogatory word to them like the "N" word in the US...just FYI

Is that why YOU initially brought the word in before I even entered this thread, you even specifically noted it didn't you?
I quote from your first post:

I did not even meet or heard of a muslim or Moro escrimador..not even one in my entire 4 years of staying and training there.

FYI, "Moro" is derogatory because the Christian Spanish used the word to demonize the islanders... FYI, the "N" word was used for Filipinos as well... just read any book around the 1900 about the Philippines.

Btw, who were the Visayans fighting against? Don't martial arts EVOLVE because you devise tactics to counter the enemy? If their enemy were people who had no idea of how to use their own well designed swords... then why would any "CANO" (hmmm.... some may find that word derogatory) even want to LEARN from a culture who has no martial prowess to speak of? After all, wouldn't they have been fighting against straw men?

Last thing, who is arguing that their art came specifically from Moros?

--Rafael--

[Sun_Helmet]

Guro Harley, I believe has the rank of Kayan Dalawa Guro in Sayoc Kali.

back to topic:

Guro Harley is Kayan Lima Guro and Katipunan Dalawa Guro in Sayoc Kali.

--Rafael--

[GSPisthebest!]

hey, you guys have a list of movies where Filipino martial arts was showcased? Thanks!

-----
Why match when you can itzamatch?

[danjuandesiga]