Vee Jitsu Arnis

[Snarlin Stef]

I think that its best if this debate is put to rest. In arguements such as this both sides end up losing.

I have my ideas as well as some other forumites here and the david james students obviously have thiers.

no one will change their mind.

"cant we all just get along?"

[HAKIM82]

Snarlin:

Your reply was appreciated, predictable but nevertheless appreciated.

I had this long reply typed out but in AOL had a problem and logged me off. LOL

SO I will brief due to time restraints.

I am not trying to be negative. I will not disrespect your instructors. Unlike, MEMEMEME, who posting, is downright insulting and whose mind is closed. Guys or girls like him I dont give the time, because it obvious they are beyond reason.

I only stated my rank to let you know that I have some knowledge of the system and not a new white belt who started yesterday. It happens a lot on these chat/sites. I respect a man or a woman for being just that until they do something to make me feel differently. If you were discussing any issue it helps to know who you are talking to. And from looking at your training regimen I can assume you are not simply a VAJ historian, but, a practitioner, LOL. Keep that up it is impressive.

As a historian or a layman it is important to have all of the facts and not neccesarily all of the opinions. That is why I asked you those questions and you fell back on Professor Powell again in your response as the primary source. So be it. If you are content in your heart and with all that he says -there it is then, go forth and shout it from the the mountain tops.

I often tell Prof. Dave that if all the VAJ, Vee Jitsu Ryu, Sanuces guys would get together the VEE system would be just as well known as Kenpo ( tall about in-fighting) , JKD ( whoa now that's infighting) etc. But , Snarlin, old wounds run deep and these guys have to put down their swords in order to heal.

I was not there when Vee, Powell, Lou Ferrier, LIL' JOhn, Robert Crosson, James. Edwards, ( too many too mention) etc. had their respective beefs and fallouts amongst one another. So try not get caught or up in it , but at times we all do. So Mr Hatfield, this Mr. McCoy does not believe everthing said to me as the gospel even if it comes from Prof. James. Do you believe without question everything that Professor Galante or whoever states, we are all mortal men, my friend and fallible. I dont know if you were there when all of that went down, but if you were there, it was out of your control to halt it or stop it, but life is like that sometimes.

But now that we are all here, what's next? I sincerely sent out an invitation to you so that we can " ....all get along" as you so put it. I was serious about learning from your instructors-knowledge is knowledge. I want you to come down and see for yourself and hear for yourself and then process your self acquired information . Take that with what you received from Professor Powell and whoever else add it togther and think for yourself and I will be more than be happy to do the same. Until then.........


I remember reviewing a car accident report and everbody present the drivers, the pedestrians and the traffic cop at the scene all saw different versions of what actually happen. If I recall when they were all in court the judge assessed a percentage of blame to all involved because after viewing the traffic camera at the intersection everybody contributed to the accident.....hmmmmmm


Foerver Forward , Never Backward

[memememe]

Well whatever you think. The bottom line to this Vee Jitsu story is that David James is dominating a system that Prof V chose not to dominate. Prov V believed that each instructor had what was needed to keep the system famous and on the up and up, not one smuck like James! Therefore, Prof Powell and Davis and Riccardi and many many others had a real gripe and still do with James and the fact that this pheasant has to maniuplate and old man and now this Judge daughter into everuthing. Are they dating, you would think there was something up that is for sure. The bottomline to the story is that Prof V never organized all of these leaders and it is a real shame that a cheap ass trophy and a dinner would be enough to buy these well known instructors, guess they are getting senile and impressionable and James if definitely good at dominating people in this state when they are old and clueless! Vee Jitsu would have been great if all instructors were allowed to teach V Jitsu and not follow someone like James that changed it 360 degrees where you can't even tell that it is V Jitsu. It looks like djaorjaknaDLjoajrjitsu now or some other nonsense. This greed that James possesses is DEFINITELY contrary to Prof V to say the least and the system shows it and will not last because people, after they digest the dinner and look at their sorry ass trophies, are going to say James is a deciever and a manipulator, wrongfully that is!

[haumana2000]

Have yu voiced your concerns with Eric and John? The Defense Institute is always willing to entertain questions and comments. I would say e-mail them, call them, or better yet, come by and see them yourself. I think their web address is www.defenseinstitute.com I do not train in VAJ exclusively, but as a friend have trained with them many times, as well as have trained with Mr. James. I have found him to be a very in your face, and serious martial artist, but at the same time a caring individual. Im sure they would be happy to "share" a little love with you. I find that VAJ as taught by their clan is no-nonsense, whatever it takes self-defense.

[Uke]

Originally posted by memememe
Well whatever you think. The bottom line to this Vee Jitsu story is that David James is dominating a system that Prof V chose not to dominate. Prov V believed that each instructor had what was needed to keep the system famous and on the up and up, not one smuck like James! Therefore, Prof Powell and Davis and Riccardi and many many others had a real gripe and still do with James and the fact that this pheasant has to maniuplate and old man and now this Judge daughter into everuthing. Are they dating, you would think there was something up that is for sure. The bottomline to the story is that Prof V never organized all of these leaders and it is a real shame that a cheap ass trophy and a dinner would be enough to buy these well known instructors, guess they are getting senile and impressionable and James if definitely good at dominating people in this state when they are old and clueless! Vee Jitsu would have been great if all instructors were allowed to teach V Jitsu and not follow someone like James that changed it 360 degrees where you can't even tell that it is V Jitsu. It looks like djaorjaknaDLjoajrjitsu now or some other nonsense. This greed that James possesses is DEFINITELY contrary to Prof V to say the least and the system shows it and will not last because people, after they digest the dinner and look at their sorry ass trophies, are going to say James is a deciever and a manipulator, wrongfully that is!

I would like to add that no matter who trained with who its obvious that none of you knew these men personally. First, Moses Powell's Sanuces doesn't look like VeeArnisJitsu to a man who has actually trained in both. Also, Prof Vee wasn't Moses' only teacher. Moses didn't even begin under Prof Vee, so enough of that. Second, Moses wasn't "THEE" best that Prof Vee produced. He had an upper classmate that was deemed "the baddest man" in the dojo, but he died and Moses became the best by default. Ask old school cats and they'll tell you.
Third, Moses doesn't "hate" David James as Moses himself has gone to David's school and given David his support. Moses says it all the time " I hate watching these guys imitate me. I want to see something new come from what I taught them". And THAT'S exactly why he supports David James. David evolved and continues to evolve and create and offer new things in the system. Also, David James didn't get the system because of any seniority, but because he was THEE only one who actually stayed with the Professor and didn't go out and make some "David-Jitsu" style like the others did. He stayed because he realized that Prof Vee was a genius when it came to combat. He learned from the Prof even up until the Prof was in his stages of senility. That's 30 SOLID YEARS, not train for a few months and disappear for 5 years, then pop up and say "I've been training for 7 years".

Also, lets keep it real. Moses has shown true greatness throughout the years, but David was one of few clean-cut guys who wasn't openly into "other" things. No one, not even David himself claims to be better skilled, better conditioned or better anything than anyone else. He simply let's everyone know that NO ONE has put in the time that he has to know where the system has gone and evolved since the 70's. No one who is honest with themselves would dispute that. 30 years is a long time for a system to grow, and not Moses, John, Lumumba, McCloud, or anyone else you could name has put in the time learn and experience Prof Vee's last 30 years of brilliance. Prof Vee came up with "Vee Arnis Jitsu" at the schoool on Atlantic Ave. Why? Because David felt as though what he and the Prof had put together over their years of training distinguished it from Veejitsu 65, 75, Veejitsu Ryu and Modern VeeJitsu. So, Prof told David to call it "Vee Arnis Jitsu", because the system had begun to shy away from the hard karate blocks and kempo flow and leaned more toward the arnis flow.

So for all you cats out there who didn't know.... now ya do.

PS Memememe.... Everybody talks bull_hit. Moses and the other masters are not excluded. However, I know and have trained with most of them who are in NY, and the reason that most of them show ANY ill will to David is because people approach them asking stupid questions like "Are you as good as David James?" OF COURSE THEY TALK SH_T IN RESPONSE TO STUPIDITY LIKE THAT!!! They've been down before David, so when someone asks something like that its disrespect.

PPS This is my opinion and my opinion only, but any other "supposed" heads of VeeArnisJitsu are jealous because Prof David did it the right way and they didn't. Have you been to David James' school? I have. I've also been to the schools of the other disciples and affiliates of Prof Vee. Most of them are not making it. They're teaching out of aerobic studios, schools and any place they can get a space to train, and there's nothing wrong with that. But if truth be told as I see it, many of them aren't angry at David being chosen as the heir of Prof Vee. They're angry because his school is successful with PAYING customers. They're angry because David's school is spacious, but always full. Angry because David remained loyal and stayed a STUDENT until his teacher died(till this day he's still comfortable with Shihan), while many others rushed out to establish their own mark in the world. That's not criticism, that's the actuals.

[Uke]

On a last note, I would just like to put it out there that many others are teaching Vee Jitsu, Vee Jitsu Te and Modern VeeJitsu. David has IN NO WAY tried to state that these people cannot or should not teach those styles. They were trained in those styles, and have the knowledge.
However, just because someone has trained with Professor Vee before the transition to Vee-Arnis-Jitsu doesn't automatically give them the knowledge of the new system by default. That's ridiculous. Not only do they not have the knowledge of the new system, but even if they somehow could learn it in 1 year, they still wouldn't teach it the way it was meant to be taught. One thing that someone who doesn't know David wouldn't know is that he is determined to make it so that anyone representing Vee-Arnis-Jitsu, no matter where it is, will teach it the same way he taught it to them. He's obsessed with keeping it all systematic. He knows that 2 practioners of the same style can teach a kata/te 2 very different ways, and confuse everything all to hell.

I've trained in Sanuces and Kumite under different men throughout my years. I can tell you that NONE of them teach the same thing the same way. Not that that's a bad thing, but it just goes to show how easy it is for a practitioner to pass on knowledge with a "spin" on it. That same "spin" is an interpretation. "Whose interpretation" should be the question. I've learned the hard way throughout the years that everyone who can fight is not meant to teach and everyone who can teach cannot always fight. The point is some people like flash. Moses might have taught a perfectly good fan block-evade manuever, but someone who he passed it on to might decide that it "looks" better if you spin before you fan block. See, that kind of "flash" could and probably would get you killed. My point? That kind of thing doesn't happen in Vee-Arnis-Jitsu because its not only a system, its a standard. And if it isn't being taught EXACTLY the way Prof Vee and David worked it out, then it isn't Vee-Arnis-Jitsu.

So I hope that explains to many of you why David is adamant about no one else using the name. There would be 50 different systems being taught under the guise of "VeeArnisJitsu" just to tie the name to Prof Vee. Its not about an ego. Its not about a "trademark". Its simply saying: "If you aint teaching my sh!t right, then you aint teaching my sh!t at all." How would any of you like to be misrepresented? I've seen some of the "knock-offs" claiming to know the system and quite frankly if I was David I'd be upset. The point of Prof Vee and David putting together VeeArnisJitsu was to create something new and "cutting edge". The "knock-off" guys were not new or cutting edge. If I saw them as a sole source of information about VeeArnisJitsu, I wouldn't be impressed or recommend it to a collegue. And neither would any of you. And obviously neither are most people, because if they were, the "knock-offs" would be alot more successful.

I once went into a pizza place and ate there. The food was so good at the end of the night I went to the owner and said "You'd be rich if you delivered. He replied " My food is so good I don't have to deliver". David doesn't really advertise at all, yet his school is doing great and still growing. You figure it out.

[Snarlin Stef]

thnx dave for the kind words about well.... ermmm... yourself... we believe you

*psst* this horse has been dead fora while... you can stop beating it

[Uke]

LOL....first off if this horse was dead you wouldn't still be beating it. And number two, if the only response you could muster is to accuse me of being David then its clear that you didn't have much to say from the beginning.

Its also clear that you only know David, Moses, John or anyone else from SEMINARS ONLY, and not from training or being around them. To be honest, I doubt that you're even in New York where all of them have taught for years.

You've probably got most of your information from students of students who relocated out of NY and cling to gossip because they are not around these men. Typical wannabe's who repeat that kind of nonsense just to seem like they know somebody.

[Snarlin Stef]

ure mother

[memememe]

David James Has All These Followers Brain Washed

The bottomline to veearnisjitsu nonsense is that he was the only one to outwardly commit Prof V to a large contract. Although there are many other artists that have contracts with Prof V may he rest. However, David James coerces the HIGHER RANKING members of Vee Jitsu to bow to him and follow him for a free dinner or trophy or similar. However, this is dirt sad that the leaders like Moses, Little John Davis, Prof Riccardi and many others allow this BAFOON to lead them around for a fre dinner or some other nonsense. James forgets that there are many other Vee Jitsu artists that have written agreements with them and James can play he is the boos all he wants, but he is definitely not, only to the few fools that follow him for a dinner or plaque. Boy ain't nothing like selling yourself short to some character that manipulates others because he claims he is the boss when there are MANYYYYYYYYYY higher ranked members that should take charge and start telling him what to do. They should start by telling James to get them a glass of water because his knowledge is NOTHING compared to many other Vee Jitsu Players. It is a shame that a good system will go down the tubes within a few years or decade or so all because James wants to be the boss and denied many many others for years and I am sorry but it is too late, he should have joined everyone together and let Moses be at the helm or someone else other than his sorry ass YEARS AGO, like 20 years ago, oh he wasn't really in Vee Jitsu heavily than I don't think so there goes that thought trying to help the little clown. Prof Vee's daughter lets this character organize things late as I said, I wonder what is going on between them?? Anyone know or you don't want to honestly tell???? Makes me wonder that is for sure. There are many other respectful Vee Jitsu artists that would have come 50+++ before James that is for sure!

[crouton]

memememe,

i am just curious why you have so much animosity towards the vee arnis jitsu family. it is precisely people like you that keep the vaj system down. im interested to know where you train at. it seems like you and snarlin stef are from the same school, norwalk martial arts. if you two are from norwalk, then i would like to know why your instructor, sensei nick, and professor galante did not come to the event in florida. all of the other heads of the different vee jitsu systems were there. there were no fights or confrontations between any of them. we all got along because we were all there for the same thing. so it seems to me that the only people that have problems or like to cause problems are you, snarlin stef, and norwalk martial arts. i hope one day you will be able to get past this so called "beef" and stop with all the childish name calling.

[Kamaunjia]

A lot of interesting things said with 'Uke' being 99.9%correct from my training and relationship with ALL of them.

Firstly:

To the Visitacion Arts, there are different Heirs to the different Arts:

David James, Vee Arnis Jitsu
Roberto Torres, Visitacion Kuntao
The Edwards (Pop/Cowboy), Vee Jitsu 75

Professor Vee certified many others to formulate and head their own variations. There are quite a few whom Professor Vee awarded very high ranks inorder to do their thing. Some of which are: GM Moses Powell, Soke Lil' John Davis, Prof. Velez, Prof. Robert Crossan, and many others.

Vee Arnis Jitsu was the last of the above Arts to be founded by Grand Prof. Vee. As was stated Vee Arnis was not the same as the proceeding Visitacion systems.

Dr. Powell says that David knows the Arnis with all of the latest innovations. None of the Seniors of Sanuces Ryu, Kumite Ryu, Sugar Ryu know the latest innovations in Vee Arnis Jitsu. Sanuces, Kumite Ryu, Sugar Ryu, Modern Vee Jitsu, and all of the other systems under the Visitacion umbrella still teach Karate/Kempo, Vee Arnis teaches Thai Boxing. The Arnis portion is more complete. Prof Vee did not even recieve full instructor status in Lanada or recieve certification from Grand Tuhon Leo Gaje until well after they left and formulated their own systems.

Sanuces Ryu and Kumite Ryu still retain much of the old ways of Vee Jitsu, but because of their other training in Shotokan, Bando, ect. the use of the Karate kata, the emphasis on karate freestyle sparring, make them separate. Vee Arnis does not use Kata. Vee Arnis does compete in Full contact stick fighting.

You can argue with me all some of you want. I have been a student of Soke Lil John and Dr. Powell. If you guys have a problem with David James, instead of having internet muscles and lip service, get on the floor with him and work it for yourself like the man of the martial arts you think you are.

If you feel that you have a problem with me because I disagree with some of the disrespectful comments made by people who have not even trained as students of Dr. Powell, Soke, Prof. Vee then feel free to come and see me. I travel frequently teaching workshops if you can not get to Oklahoma City.

This post has succeded to make a family matter public for people who should not be privy to family affairs. Prof. Vee did what he felt best. He left Prof. David as the Heir to Vee Arnis , not Vee Jitsu Ryu, not Vee Jitsu Te. Dr. Powell has Sanuces Ryu and teaches in his own way, and Soke has Kumite Ryu and teaches that in his own way.

Darrell Sarjeant

[Snarlin Stef]

Kamaunjia

"Oklahoma City" riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight
ill meet you there

Crouton

There were many VAJ masters that did not show. FYI

And just for the record... i do not know who memememe is.

the real issue here beyond all this jive turkey is that david james tries to control a system in a manner that prof. vee did not. the animosity that i hear about david james is that he gives permission (or doesnt give permission) to masters that are much older and more experienced than himself to use prof. vee's name. (just look all over his website... many masters find that offensive that they need permission from some1 that they see as less experienced or as equal experience as themselves)

In a way its like a child telling a father what he can or cannot do. Now i must admit that many VAJ masters do not even bother acknowledging david james in anyway shape or form and that is their business not mine. But the issue of him recanting or attempting to control masters that prof vee himself promoted to a very high level (5th DAN or higher) is where the animosity is. Who is he to take control of something that he did not create nor is he wisest or the most experienced person in the VAJ system?

he attempts to control what prof vee did not and he attempts to make many VAJ masters more experienced than himself pay homage to him. david james pays much respect to prof vee but he does not pay much respect to those masters that walked the VAJ path longer and b4 he ever did. (unless they pay him a licensing fee for using the "vee" name)

[Kamaunjia]

Well then, if they dont like the way Prof. James runs Vee Arnis Jitsu, then see one of the other Heirs. Prof. James has the right to do whatever he wants as the head of that branch, and has the legal authority through Judge Visitacion.

BTW, obviously mememe is from your school, but neither of you are man enough to leave your names. Yet you guys have the nerve to disrespect your senior, Prof. James, with names and accusations. If, again, you have these issues with Prof. James then travel to Park Pl. and sit down at the table and air them with him. There is absolutely NOTHING that can be accomplished through the internet but to add more heat to a fire that only the Visitacion families should be privy to.

Again, lets leave the family business, disagreements, issues to the family. Not on the internet for everyone to see. It is none of their business!

Darrell Sarjeant

[Snarlin Stef]

my name is jon wayne
david james aint no sr professor of mine