AMOK vs Sayoc vs Pekiti -> how do they compare ?

[macmerc]

how do AMOK, Sayoc and Pekiti compare ? Is one more blade oriented than the others, more defensive, offensive, etc. ? how do they compare contrast ? (I am looking into all three, and cannot get clear on exactly how they differ)
thanks,
-->macmerc

[Airyu]

Hello MacMerc,

All three have great qualities, to look for in an effective fighting system. I have trained in all three and enjoyed them all, currently I am focusing on Sayoc Kali. My recommendation to you is to try a class at each of the respective schools and see what the arts are like, then join where you feel it is best to train for you.


Gumagalang
Guro Steve L.

https://www.Bujinkandojo.net

[Reactor]

Airyu:

A truly diplomatic post, but honestly is somewhat evasive, for it really does not help those among us who have not had first-hand experience with some of these systems, and want to know someone's take on their differences and orientation.

As you have experienced all three, would you be so kind as to post your opinion as to how they differ. It does not have to be a negative one; just a forthright opinion as to how each system approaches blade fighting.

Thanks.

Reactor

[William]

I have not experienced the other two, Sayoc or AMOK! But I do know that AMOK! has a heavy Pekiti-Tirsia influence.

As Airyu said (and Sun Helmet & I did previously on a separate thread), experience it for yourself. Decide what is best for you. That is the best advice anyone with your best interest at heart can give you.


William

[Joe Talmadge]

Originally posted by Airyu
Hello MacMerc,

All three have great qualities, to look for in an effective fighting system. I have trained in all three and enjoyed them all, currently I am focusing on Sayoc Kali. My recommendation to you is to try a class at each of the respective schools and see what the arts are like, then join where you feel it is best to train for you.

Steve, since you've trained in all three, would you mind contrasting the three styles, based on training techniques, application of those techniques, etc. ? Thanks!

[Airyu]

Hello Again Guys,

Sorry for the delay in following up, I am swamped after returning from a 2 week vacation.

This question often comes up on various forums and often turns into a war of personalities of those who practice the various arts, so that is why most of us have written that the best way to learn something about the system is to experience it first hand. I'll try to shead some light on the three arts though:

AMOK! - founder Professor Tom Sotis, website www.knifefighting.com. When I first started with Professor Tom, it was on a search for Dagaso Tirsia from G.T. Gaje, this search eventually lead me to G.T. Gaje directly and then to Tuhon Chris Sayoc, whom I am currently studying with. AMOK! at that time had various drills to help a practitioner develop certain fighting skills. AMOK! at the time, also included Pekiti Tirsia's 64 attack system of practice into the regular curriculum. Later in the practice, Professor Sotis, did away with many of the training drills in favor of a much more/less structured art with alot more sparring/dueling added to the practice. Professor Sotis also continues to teach aspects of flexible weapons, unarmed skills as well as to tap into his practice of various arts, such as Kuntao etc. to augment his students fighting skill repetoire. During my time with him, I was only shown a few techniques derived from his training with G.T Gaje, and he continues with his path in AMOK!, training with various masters to help enhance his skill and art of AMOK! Definetely a person to train with!!

Pekiti Tirsia Kali - Head Instructor - Grand Tuhon Leo Gaje, I started practicing PTK in the early/mid 80's by learning the Abecdario, from an article in a New York magazine that someone had given me. I had read the various articles about Master Gaje, and wanted to travel to New York to train but I was in school and then college and he eventually moved to Texas and then left for the Philippines. When I eventually got a hold of Tuhon Gaje in 1998/99, I orignally was just looking to enhance my 64 attacks(which I eventually learned thru various PTK students) One of the first things he told me was to stop practicing the 64 attacks as it was old technology! Tuhon Gaje has definitely improved on the old method of teaching from the 70's - 80's. Instead he now offers various various training methodologies from the Pamuno Tirsia(basic strikes), Palipas Tirsia(deflection movement), triplicado offensiva, Tri V forumula, Contra Tirsia Dobla Dos etc, he continues to work off the Contrada - recontrada methodologies from the earlier days but also includes more drills on the aspect of the short blade as well. I am not familiar with alot of his newer technologies that he is currently teaching. Still another person to Definitely train with.

Sayoc Kali - Headed by Tuhon Christopher Sayoc, website www.Sayoc.com.

The Sayoc System of Edged Weapons Dynamics is taught in three parts. Sayoc Kali, Sayoc Silak, and Sayoc Bakal. The Sayoc Kali system emphasizes the correct and effective usage of the blade. During training a student will learn how to use a single blade, with progression to the use of multiple blades, in conjunction with empty-hands training. Sayoc Kali contains the basic teaching formula, and is primarily concerned with the development of the "Feeder". Feeder based mentality is best described by answering this oft-asked question: "How would you defend against a guy with a knife?" Feeder Based mentality : "I have the Knife" The Sayoc Silak system is the counter offensive training and contains the second learning formula. This training revolves around the "Receiver", and is started with the empty hands. The Sayoc Bakal system is the third aspect taught. It is comprised around the use of projectiles in combat. It works as a complete system and complements and enhances both Sayoc Kali and Sayoc Silak.. Included in these 3 categories of training are: proper handling or blade edge discipline, blade deployment, vital target discrimination, defense against and the practice of disarms, projectiles and finger-touch methodology used in conjunction with knife work, critical injury management, teaching methodologies, non linear templates, 2 dominant weapon usage, environmental tactics, power assisted movements, and a system for multiple man situations.

I was introduced to Tuhon Sayoc while training with Master Sotis, and he mentioned attending a seminar where he was introduced to the "cross check" methodology in Sayoc kali. I started searching to find out more about the art and I continue to train with Tuhon Sayoc.

Another great person to definetly train with!

I hope this helps

Gumagalang

Guro Steve L.

https://www.Bujinkandojo.net

[Joe Talmadge]

Thanks!