concept kali vs full escrima,k.,a.

[roz]

I've trained in kali offered from jkd concepts for quite a while. i never have studied kali, escrima, or arnis as a full art. is there a big differance? if so what type of differance?
thank you in advance

[LEO]

hello

[kruzada]

I believe that Guro Dan Inosanto's system of FMA is as complete as any other that I have encountered. However, I do believe that there is a very large difference between the Eskrima training in his system and more "traditional" systems of FMA.

While the range of techniques within the JKDC/KALI system is very impressive and complete, the intent of their training mehodology seems (IMHO) overly focused on flow drills that, as I understand it, are trained primarily to develop their empty hand coordination, sensitivity, timing, and rhythm.

In many traditional FMA systems, the focus is almost always on developing good physical attributes first such as form, stability, speed, and power. It is very common to repeat basic patterns of attack and defense hundreds of times in one session that may exceed two hours or more of straight weapons training, as many as three or four times per week. The development of sensitivity, timing, and rhythm are inseperable qualities that are honed during light/controlled drills that have no preset patterns, and/or hard full/light contact sparring.

The weapons that you train with in traditional FMA systems are the weapons that you fight with. Empty hand training is a part of most FMA curriculums but the techniques are mostly to defend against the same weapons that you are trained to use. The weapons training is meant to be your primary line of defense, it is not only taught as a step towards empty hand training, but something wholly practical unto itself. Unlike in most western countries, many people in the provinces of the Philippines carry sticks, Itaks or other bladed implements that they use as part of their trade. So weapons are always available to the lay person or criminal alike.

I believe that the JKDC/Kali system is a very valid source for Filipino Martial Artists to draw from. But I also believe that Eskrima is very complete unto itself, and if you use it as a base from which you incorporate other forms of Martial Arts it can be more formidable than merely using it to enhance the training of other relative attributes.

That I guess is the core difference between the two ideologies. Traditional FMA practitioners see what they do as a complete whole that doesn't need much to enhance it, but that doesn't mean that they are afraid to cross train. However their goal in cross training is different from JKDC in that they cross train either to add new skills to their existing knowledge of the FMA or perhaps to gain more indepth knowledge of competing styles to get a better idea of what they have to defend themselves against. Whereas JKDC/Kali practitioners (IMHO) tend to view Eskrima weapons training as an equal part of a greater whole along with the other ranges of striking, kicking, trapping, and grappling that are obviously derived from many different sources.

I find it encouraging that many JKDC/Kali practitioners are training with other FMA groups, and Vice Versa. Knowledge from any source is useful, and in this country where so many styles from so many different sources are available, it is tempting to keep training and collecting techniques and drills, but there must be a point where you have to stop and as Bruce Lee said, "hack away at the unessentials". Anyone's training regardless of system or style should focus on the development of good basics, because nine times out of ten that is what is going to save you should you ever, god forbid, have to use what you know.

I hope this helps. I am no authority on JKDC/Kali, but I do admire what Guro Dan has done for the Filipino Martial Arts community. In my eyes he embodies all of the aspects that a Grandmaster of Eskrima should have. Good luck in your training.

[roz]

Thank you for your educated and humble reply. the differance between the two are so small but yet so largeto the open eye. thank you once again

[HITJKD]

Ditto, very nice reply.

[William]

Nice post Kruzada.

I would say that is quite accurate. Though I would add that my experience with JKDC/Kali people has been that the emphasis and skills on the Kali side can vary greatly. I have encountered some who almost wholly focus on the JKDC, and the "Kali" that they teach is very limited in scope. And the others either already have a very solid grounding in FMA when they began training with Guro Dan, or devote equal time to develop and understand the Kali side. It can be hit & miss, but for the most part, the standards are generally high.

While the range of techniques within the JKDC/KALI system is very impressive and complete, the intent of their training mehodology seems (IMHO) overly focused on flow drills that, as I understand it, are trained primarily to develop their empty hand coordination, sensitivity, timing, and rhythm

Generally, I think you are correct. I will point out that one of my instructors is a full instructor/Guro in Jun Fan/JKDC/Kali under Guro Inosanto, but he already had a lengthy and solid background in FMA (trained in the Philippines as well as his GM coming to the states and living at his home for almost 4yrs) when he started. So we had a full and very intense training regimen in the FMA...as well as JKDC and MT (in that order). So our training went well beyond that of your standard JKDC/Kali training so I can't say you are 100% correct.

Traditional FMA practitioners see what they do as a complete whole that doesn't need much to enhance it, but that doesn't mean that they are afraid to cross train. However their goal in cross training is different from JKDC in that they cross train either to add new skills to their existing knowledge of the FMA...

I have always been (and always will be) first and foremost an FMA practitioner. The more I train in Pekiti-Tirsia, the more I think I don't need anything else. But that doesn't mean that I will stop training MT and KK. As Kruzada alludes to, it just enhances my personal style of FMA. Everything I do works off of that foundation.

but I do admire what Guro Dan has done for the Filipino Martial Arts community. In my eyes he embodies all of the aspects that a Grandmaster of Eskrima should have.

Absolutely!

Again, good post.


William

[allswoledup]

Appreciate the posts guys

I contacted the school and the owner,instructor is out of town,but I will post his response if it is an intresting one,but it is probably just a class that is mixed with different students or something.

I looked it up on the web an there is a kali-silat organization,but it isn't related to or affiliated with Dan Inosanto which is what is supposed to be the case here.

[Kali]

Yes i think there is a difference

I study JKD concepts here in the UK on a Tuesday and Thurday evening. I have been studying this for about 7 years now. However more recently I have started to explore and have started to study Warriors system of eskrima and I do find a significant difference in that the emphasis is always on the weapon. Yes that is emphasised at JKD but not to the extent that it is at eskrima. Infact I have found that it tends to complement what I am taught at JKD because I can graspe a deeper understanding into the techniques that are taught. Sometimes I feel that it is often better to gain a little extra training in the areas that interest you, especially if you are a JKD practitioner
Quite a few of my training partners have similar views too, many from experiances with different arts though!

[kruzada]

Thanks roz, HITJKD, and William.

I thought that I might be unintentionally starting a flame war with the JKDC members of this forum, but everyone who has viewed this thread seems to be very open minded.

I guess that is what JKD is supposed to be about, an open mind.