Escrima

[fgbkali]

when I met my teacher I asked the true differance between kali and arnis and escrima and got the answer its like true sword fighting and olympic fencing his family had hidden and studyed in secret while all around the conquerors stomped this art out its the difference between kendo and true fighting application of the katana arnis and escrima are very good but true kali wades right through them (according to my betters ) kali is kinda like a serious warriors pursuit of war in the midst of a battle escrima and arnis are more civil and urban consessions are made to speed the progression to adeptness

[adacas]

I like kali but I can't say that that it wades right through the others. everybody has something to offer. I have some experience in estalilla kabaroan and have to say it is a favorite of mine. but then again perhaps its because i have seen and been exposed to them. I don't believe in a true difference. the only difference is what weapons they use, how they use them, etc. Actually I read a great book that my cousin let me barrow so i could add more information to Grandmaster Estalilla's website. Its titled Filipino Fighting Arts: Theory and Practice by Mark V. Wiley It is a good book and showcases the training progressions, training methods, and fighting strategies of some of 27 of the most popular eskrima styles. It even showcases estalilla kabaroan and sayoc kali. It is a good book and tries to give as much detail as possible on each subject. If you want to get a basic overview of different filipino fighting style then I definetly suggest this book.

[tsefreeflow]

"As soon as you speak about a thing, you miss the mark"

I would suggest that we do not say things when what they are talking about is speculation. For example, there is evidence that Kali came after Eskrima, but I am not going to say it because it still is speculation.
Kali, you obviously do not know Eskrima or you would not wrongly speculate on how the art is made for sticks.
fdbkali, you need to be careful what you say. I have never heard, seen anyone ever wading through a true Serrada Eskrimadore, but I have seen it the other way.
The book of mark wiley's is ok, he has alot of information in there from a guy who really knows nothing of what he professes. But he probably had good intentions, who knows.

[sercuerdas]

fgbkali,

i assume your first teacher taught kali so he is biased, but that doesn't mean it's true.

[fgbkali]

>I would suggest that we do not say things when what they are talking about is speculation. For example, there is evidence that Kali came after Eskrima, but I am not going to say it because it still is speculation>well acording to my teachers family history they had to hid thier famly art (kali) through the spanish colonization so this family styole has been carried before the development of escrima or arnis rember that ecrima and arnis are spamish in origin its the name that the spanish gave teh arts and teh resembalance to western martial arts is pretty close plenty of rapier tech are incorperated and updated to the time peroid due to the rapier and dagger oppisition

its not the style but the man behind the style maybe angle could give my teacher a challenge but he has run over plenty of escrimadors and then has invited them to visit his small class but if you think you can play my teacher he has made me promise to find and refur anyone with a exceptional level of skill for him to try he is in hawaii and loves to play the players so if your ever in maui drop me a note and I will drop him a line

i assume your first teacher taught kali so he is biased, but that doesn't mean it's true> well I can refur you as well see if his actions speak louder than words he just ran into a serrada player and he is going to be visiting the class after recovering now mind you he tried his best and just hurt himself more but fighting with rolled up newspapers dosent hurt would it I think that I know who met my teacher and I am glad that he had fun but if you want to know the fma visit hawaii or the philipines and find the source and see how your progressions have taken you if you think that all fma are the same find the Lontayao family or teh vabrille largusa system and tell them what you told me then test thier tech I would be very intrested in your sucess as I have tried and failed but I always wish for the best to others find my teacher and ask him how biased he is now he dont learn other styles for he is working hard on what he knows and strives to learn more

ps to all I seen this man crush a rock like jello and I have a very respectfull attitude to this mans tech from first hand experiance I think this is gettin a bit long so I am gonna pull up a pad of concrete and work on my hand training so when I do get to play in hawaii I will be a little prepared lol
to all no disrespect and thank you all for bringing all your opinions here comunication is the baises for further learning and may you all find an easy path with shade and water

[Serrada]

Originally posted by fgbkali
true fighting application of the katana arnis and escrima are very good but true kali wades right through them (according to my betters ) kali is kinda like a serious warriors pursuit of war in the midst of a battle escrima and arnis are more civil and urban consessions are made to speed the progression to adeptness

All are extremely combative. I take it you have not heard of Felicissimo Dizon or Angle Cabales. These eskrimadors had numerous death matches with kali masters and arnis masters and both died of old age. My only point is that kali definitely does not wade right through them! They all have there advantages. I have done both arnis and eskrima and workout with kali guys. Some kali guys worked my ass over but more often than not I got the best of them. Padded stick tournaments ofcourse. All three were arts designed to quickly train farmers to defend there islands from invaders. These arts are still used today throughout the Filipinas to protect land and family. Additionally, it’s all in the man not the art.

I too back the books of Mark V. Wiley. Read them.

[Serrada]

I would like to clarify something which might cause some controversy. Eskrima, Arnis and Kali are weapons only arts. But before you all get all bent out of shape over this statement, the majority have empty hand systems added to them based on the same principles, angles, strikes, and movements. For example I do Serrada Eskrima. Not only is Serrada a style sui generis, but it is also a synthesis of disparate Philippine styles into a single integrated fighting system. Among the individual styles encompassed by Serrada Eskrima are the following: Dumug (grappling) • Serrada ( Espada y Daga) • Largo Mano • Fraile • Ritriada • De Cuerdas • Cadena de Mano ( de Cadena) (empty-hand and kicking ( siakaran, sipat) These empty-hand tactics can be further classified into punching, parrying, blocking, trapping, locking, disarming, and takedown techniques.) • Bati-Bati • Sipat • Siakaran • Redonda • Sinawalli

[fgbkali]

well I am far from an infromed source I was trying to aderss a debate about history now I know that I am good historian and can tell you this that you cant believe everything that you believe and that 99% of what you read on the internet is bull shit. every now and a gain you run into something that you might think is true now I have read teh arguments from plenty of corners and know that the true determining facotr in a fight is the will and drive ergardless of the style that they come from and what you say is right there arnis guys that lay waste but even when your the best there is all ways someone who is harder tougher and willing to sacrifice what he has to win that is a uncalculible factor but some men are dead and the only way to match them is in vahalla where teh best fighters from the world await fighting and testing thier tech against the greatest warriors in history and the world every day but what do they do at the end of the evening? the dead raise adn all engage in a party and discution about the days events now I have never been fluent in the tagalong lanugage and I have read quite a few uninformed sorces I bet you have run across them also lots of misconceptions and lies previal and flourish on the internet only thing that I dissagree is about a history point I am trying to clarify not to acuse sone style of not being as good far from the truth if you put Felicissimo Dizon, Angle Cabales, and Floro Vabrille in a ring who

[fgbkali]

LOL SORRY who would win? well its a toss up and a guess now I am far from the best source to quote but I do know how to read behind the words or the lines I am native american and have to deal with plenty regards my history and misconceptions now if I bet the best warroir from my tribe meets the best warrior from my tribe its still a toss up on who wants teh win more what I try to say is that it is more the man than the style that point I dont think you will be able to deny
now to my teacher I have been friends with for years a wonderfull guy who can help me even through the internet can help my progressions in solo and exteramly limited training ( I try to make up for the amount and the dayly training that I do) is able to help me to progress and provide vauge and limited ideas to let me fully experiance the validitay now even thaough I was training in my forests and at my residence every day if iam out of line for chasing a dream then come and kick my ass I teach nothing of what I know I help others while teaching myself I have spent my life getting beaten and another beat down will only solidify my resolve its been years since I have had to truely defend my life and I have had people try to kill me dead I am not happy about it I have tryed to be humble and apologise and to take the higher path to no avail now I take these events in my life as a test and a true deturmination of my charicter (someone in my past) said that teh pass and lock the delay in the fight is more to test the resolve of the opponent and what his intentions are and if one is trying to kill you drop him bypass the nonsence and get done with it and get away from the situation
now to address the major infulence in my training has been a shadow hidden apparently I have brought attention to his system now if your truly a seeker of knowledge and of respute send a resume and introduce your self at a distance for these people value thier privacy and art and keep it into thier heart I was wrong to bring attention and quote things I have only touched I was thinking that this was a history question and I am sorry to have said anything that is wrong and misleading I seek not pain and destruction for an opponent I seek the gentlest way to provide myself with defending my opponent form my own self I seek no harm to others and the best to humanity I am descended from great chiefes and warriors my people and ansestors lived and called home to yosemite valley now a tourist attraction as well as the area in idaho montana colerado and utah I am a desendent of the miwok tribe from cali and the shoshone-bannok tribe from Fort Hall Idaho and have known the best people from the most knowadgeble places my grandfather has a filipino machete and admits to swiming in the filipines now not a word on the equipment that is dubious on just riding a ship and not a word to hs activitys in the war except for very careful examples of his war experiance now my reascearch tells me that he was doing more than just what he claimed but am too polite to my elders than to confront and demand a answer maybe I am too soft and nice for combat I never ment to give you a misconseption or to create fuss lol maybe this thread should be labled contrivertial now I will say it is more the man that makes the style not the style that makes the man now I have only met my "teacher" once in person but I will say that with limited comumication and a ocean away he is the best teacher/guide he has told me how and where to try to progerss in my training even if circumstances have changed it has seamed that I have answered a question too directly and truethfully for my own good well honesty has never been a problem for me now I am going to conclude and further trouble for me and those I know with: I will never know anything and will never as circumcumstances will not bring me a knowledgable instructor in my area and as much as I search not a one has shown so far but my spirit will never be conquered and I will still search for the truith will continue

[Serrada]

[kruzada]

I'm glad that you realize that you are unqualified to make such bold statements.

I hope you realize that there couldn't possibly be an end to this discussion. The terms Arnis Eskrima and Kali are broad generalizations, period.

If you need to classify these terms, as I have stated previously, They are often indicative of the general region from which the style or system originated. But in many instances styles/systems that are imported into another region may adapt the terminology that the general population is more familiar with, to attract more interest or perhaps just to avoid any confusion.

Filipinos are practical by nature, and Filipino martial artists (in th P.I) are not usually concerned so much with what a teacher calls their style, as they are with the effectivity of the techniques taught within the style that they choose to study.

Don't fall into the my "style is better than your style" trap. There really is no superior style or method, because no matter how good your teacher is or his teacher was, at the end of the day it's only what you yourself can prove (either in the ring or in the street) that really matters.