Silat poison

[Tant01]

One of the secrets (that's probably not really a secret) of silat is the old trick of treating your defensive weapons with lethal poison of the fast acting variety. A simple laceration becomes the death blow.

I am wondering if this practice continues in any of the new styles of pentjak silat?

**I do not know any recipes for fast acting poison so please do not ask!**


Disclaimer: It is a violation of law to use poison for self defense as it demonstrates premeditation and deadly intent...

This thread is STRICTLY for educational purposes ONLY.


Thank you.

[BoarSpear]

One of the secrets (that's probably not really a secret) of silat is the old trick of treating your defensive weapons with lethal poison of the fast acting variety. A simple laceration becomes the death blow.

I am wondering if this practice continues in any of the new styles of pentjak silat?

**I do not know any recipes for fast acting poison so please do not ask!**


Disclaimer: It is a violation of law to use poison for self defense as it demonstrates premeditation and deadly intent...

This thread is STRICTLY for educational purposes ONLY.


Thank you.

The old "the cracks in the kris hold the poison" bit eh? ...poison rings....needles and hairpins...so much for poison hand

And WHAAAaaa no recipes?

[Tant01]

The back blade on my karambits have "teeth" or rippers that traditionally would be treated along with the blade itself.

Poison darts for your blow gun and arrowheads were often treated as well.

[Tant01]

Academic

The old "the cracks in the kris hold the poison" bit eh? ...poison rings....needles and hairpins...so much for poison hand

And WHAAAaaa no recipes?

Ingredients can be found listed in the footnotes of more than one book and possibly on line, I haven't looked...

I'll share the secret ingredients for love potions but not poison...

Do you know where to find a monkey turd?

[husnira]

salam...
nice thread tant01....
about the poison...it is abit difficult to explain it..but the poison is not all chemical...in malay...when a wound is inflicted by a blade or kris,the pain that you feel is call "bisa"...that is what i think tan01 is reffering to in this thread...so like i said if you really want to know what is bisa or poison,...just remember that there are things that not always can be explain in real science...no matter how u put it...there r things in this world that is beyond you and me...accept it...
thet good things is...there poison tht is on the natural side is explainable...usually the kris or blade is swab with scropion or snake venom...mostly venomous annimal can be used...some wil even use a combonation of venom..mix in a cocktail of insect like centepede and many other...
not just the insects and animals can give u the killing edge...the plants also...on of the famous is the "ipoh" tree sap....this tree is so venomous...it is illegal to plant it purposely...until now...the aboriginies in malaysia still use it for hunting...
the other part about bisa is the supernatural part...not easy to explain..but trust me...it is there...no matter u belive it or not..
salam....

[Tant01]

Paralyzed then dead...

Thank you my friend.

Husnira knows the plants and animals!

Yes ipoh (poison) of the Antiaris toxicaria, the bausor tree or Moraceae... Upas or Ipoh

The primary agents of it's sap are called cardiac glycosides, and glycosides affect activity of muscle membrane and heart muscle contraction.

You will simply stop breathing because you can't use the muscles or your heart will stop and then you die...

Natives have been using it since at least the middle ages.

[Sagacious Lu]

That's fascinating stuff, I wonder though, how easy is it to poison yourself if you're not properly trained, or even if you are and you just get careless? I know it's not that uncommon for experienced people to make a mistake during a weapon form and injure themself- that's not a big deal with a demo weapon but it tells me that one certainly wouldn't want to take poison lightly.

[Tant01]

Poisonous things...

In old legends prisoners were sometimes tied to the trunk of the Ipoh tree for execution. Plants and animals in the immediate area of the tree all die.

It's very toxic in it's own right and even more so in concentrated form.

There is also a climbing bush variety can be processed to make deadly poison.
Upas tieute (Strychnos Tieute).

See also: Terris elliptica or Tuba root. The arrow-poison of the Malays and fish poison of Java. Its active constituent, an acid resin, dervid, is reputed intensely poisonous, gold-fish being stupefied by 1/5000000 part, death following in 30 minutes.
King's American Dispensatory. by Harvey Wickes Felter, M.D., and John Uri Lloyd, Phr. M., Ph. D., 1898. http://www.henriettesherbal.com/ecle...-nux.html#ipoh


Hey Boar, should I assume you are a skeptic of the deadly magic of silat?

[BoarSpear]

Hey Boar, should I assume you are a skeptic of the deadly magic of silat?

You can assume I am a skeptic of MAGIC in the Martial arts period

Its common knowledge that Kris knives were VERY poorly made and the blades OFTEN had cracks and such in the blades from poor metal working skills...yet the craftsmen passed these off as intentional so that poison could be secreted in the blade sure people from many cultures used poisons to aid in their hunting/fighting but it isnt magic...its poison...there are no magical powers associated with martial arts...you gain skill from practice...you also gain insight and awareness of the planet you live on, but there is no "magic" in the martial arts you gain abilities that seem special to those who havent learned the secrets of the arts but it isnt magic, its synergy at best....

[Tant01]

"Magic"

Technical terms like Cardiac glycocides are completely unknown to the primitive tribes but MAGIC would explain it well enough for them to know it's very powerfull indeed.

Cardiac glycosides are divided into two main types:
Bufadienolides are C24 steroids...

Cardenolides (most prevalent) are C23 steroids.

The primary cardiac glycoside present in Helleborus is the bufadienole, hellebrin. Hellebrigenin, the aglycone of hellebrin is more potent than the glycoside itself....POWERFULL MAGIC!!

Cardenolides have a hormonal nature as substances. Their effects are on the heart and kidney. Cardenolides are classified according to the chemical composition of their aglycones as lanataglucosides. (A,B,C,D and E)There is only one plant known to have all five and every part of it is toxic.

The assumed mechanism of action: inhibition of the Na+, K+-ATPase resulting in increased intracellular sodium and subsequent intracellular calcium leading to enhanced muscle contraction in cardiac tissue.

Just like magic!!

http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/plants/toxicagents/cardiacglyco.html

[BoarSpear]

bic lighters and David Copperfield might also confuse the natives but it doesnt make them anymore magical than the actor who plays Harry Potter. Sure people less advanced might need magic to grasp the concept but modern martial artists in Advanced countries need not propagate myths...part of what allows frauds to hide out as genuine teachers is the mystical magical mumbo jumbo many people try to hide behind....I used to believe in Santa, not anymore, but i still understand christmas...

[Tant01]

More "Magic"

Dear Boarspear...

you will become very sleepy reading this post, very, very sleepy...

Your eyeslids are already heavy and difficult to keep open...

Rest.....


The power of suggestion is magical. Suggestions can be made with the eyes or body language. Techniques themselves suggest training in a particular style of martial art, even a stance or ready position can reveal a great deal about oneself.

Further hypnosis has been clinically shown to affect all kinds of behaviors.

Hysterical trance like conditions are invoked with intoxicants or spiritual dogma. Some even inflict horrendous wounds on themselves with sharp knives or whips. All of this and more can be considered magic by practitioners...not to mention sleight of hand or prestidigitation

Healing "powers" are also magical in the eyes of many (including Dreager sensei himself) There may be no scientific explanation for the way people can do some things. The magical ability of the human body to mend itself is still a mystery to many...

That charcoal can absorb toxins and poisons or that these poisons break down and become inert with heat or time is a mystery to some and you know, it must be magic, right?

I'm not promoting the ignorance or blindness just saying we don't understand many things and lots of folks will buy it if you tell them it's supernatural.

See the thread about Combat Ki?

[BoarSpear]

ZZZZZZZZZZ ..huh Whaa?? I bought what?

[Tant01]

Educational!

Wake Up! You won't remember that I've programmed you to climb the first tree you see and start acting like the Orangutan!

[BoarSpear]

Hey how did i get up this tree? and why is this female Orangutan grinning so big?....she sure looks content though