So what can be done to fix Karate?

[IPON]

Problem with a lot of MA is that people think they are capable of teaching just because they have a Black Belt
Appart from the fact that teaching is a profession that has to be learned
A 1st degree Black Belt often doesn't even understand all the principles yet
This is not just in the US but worldwide

I definately think you have hit on one of the biggest problems IMHO. Unqaulified instructors. I am not that concerned about belts but do respect what they can represent.

I have always though that one should be 4th dan before they are able to teach. I was also under the assumption that minuimums for belt test was just that minimum, but it is interpreted as Ok here 2 months other belts 3 months another belt.

After my instructor passed I wanted to continue TSD. So I checked a few dojangs then found my instructors instructor master YU. I asked Master Yu about a few instructors that I met. I found out most of the instructor s in the area trained under Master Yu. When I said master..... he said "master of what" he is 1 or 2nd degree and Master Yu told them not to teach. He said mater starts at 4th dan at that point you could teach.

So I think that the problem is commercialism and saturation. I think the only way to fix karate is focus on the roots, modernize and limit the commercialism. But the problem is that you cannot accomplish that if you are concerned about your bottonm line. Don't get me wrong, peopel have to survive. I am just saying don't make it easy for everyone so there is high volume of students and low volume of quality. I have notice in the HapKiDo I study, it is very easy for whit and yellow, but after high orange the training and require ment are very high and people do not stay. Fine but the quality of the BB is high as a result. The instruction has actually demoted people (lowered their ranking) if they could not maintain profieciency (though I think this was for student s that wanted to be instructors).

Anway, I tknow this is not technical but I do think the commercialism is foundation of the problems. Definately, not all problems just one that was not mentioned.

[Thai Bri]

Thats so true. As a cop theres times when I deal with the mentally ill or decent people who are just wound up to fever pitch about some injustice. Who wants to hit them? Not me, thats for sure.

It takes a saint to work with the Mentally Ill. My dad did it for years. Why is it they get payed peanuts when they're doing such worthwhile work?

Oops, thats another threads worth I guess.

[Toudiyama[NL]]

No belt level makes you a teacher, it involves Psychology, didactics physiology teaching methods and more
Just because you know the stuff doesn't mean you know how
that would mean that evry expert could become teacher which isn't true in normal life ans shure as he not in MA
So master Yu is just as wrong in his assuption as the others are.
I don't know about your Judo assoc but ours has a teachers course or actually they have 3 courses
Judo juvenile leader, judo teacher a judo teacher b ( the las 2 might be the other way around
you have to be 1st degree BB for the juvenile leader, 2nd and 3 rd for the teacherscourses, just to enter
Government officials heck the quality of the exams by being present at least for the practical part of the exam


Bri
My Brother works in an institute and actually did the course of my former teacher and yes these people are underpaid for what they do

I can see were you get into the same kind of situations with drunks

[brokenelbow]

This is where you're missing something. Something crucial. The psychlogy of fighting is far more than coming from a war-like culture, or having an aggressive attitude. The psychology of fighting involves many things, such as:-

- understanding and exploiting adrenalin, in both yourself and your opponent
- fear control
- pre fight rituals
- dialogue and deception
- verbal judo/conversation management.

There's information available about things like this on this site - www.geoffthompson.com as well as books and videos for sale.

At the moment there is a whole spere about which you know litle about. No offence, neither did I until the last couple of years. But if you want to maximise your chances of surviving a street fight (or, better still, avoiding it) this is the place to go.

LOL, Thai Bri I've been using those things since 1986. Had a sensei that was a bouncer and bodyguard in NY and he incorporated all that and more into his teaching, he just never really gave it fancy names he just laid it out for us. After I moved and I finally got to take JKD I was shocked to see that these things weren't being taught. I figured since it was a "Streetfighting" art it would have street smarts. Boy was I wrong.Took me along time to find new instructors who were in the know and experienced with what you guys call "fight psychology". And once again they teach classical styles of karate. So besides the street, how are you set if someone breaks into your home? How silently can you move through your home? If you wake up in the middle of the night do you roll over and go back to sleep? How well can you listen to your surroundings? Could you hear someone if they're standing still? How can you see better in the dark? Could you approach someone in the dark without being seen and take them out? There are still so many things to learn.

[IPON]

No belt level makes you a teacher, it involves Psychology, didactics physiology teaching methods and more
Just because you know the stuff doesn't mean you know how
that would mean that evry expert could become teacher which isn't true in normal life ans shure as he not in MA

What i meant about belts is that from a fight perspective it does not impress me what level you are or are not. But I do have respect for BB for what it says about thier dedication in thier respective style.

I agree, I just mentioned the example of Master Yu to illustrate a point of when people should/should not teach. I am not referring to teaching in the same school for example that you recieved your ranking. I am talking about people that get a BB and then decide "oh I know enough" and open thier own scool for purposes of money and/or ego. Master Yu was basically saying that certain people he did not give permission to teach and they were not qualified. He felt also that not everyone should teach but if you do you need minimal creditials for TSD that was a 4th dan (other styles may be different.) But I agree not everyone can be a teacher, it does take a unique person. You also have to have ethics and it seems like instructors who are not qualified to teach are teaching and it brings down the art.

Bottom line is quality control. just my 2 cents

[Toudiyama[NL]]

With our Karate org it is 2nd dan but you are doing everything for third, dono if they ever changed it but we had the suggestion to finish it of with a dan grade exams if second go for 3rd if 3rd go for 4th 5th involves giving a demo at a big event so is a bit hard to do

we got stuff from other styles of karate too since it is a multi styled assoc,
In karate it is 2 fased assistant teacher and then teacher,nearly 4 years almost every saterday

You are learning to analyze the movements and come up with your own methods not just copy what your teacher did

But in Japan it differs in one style they agree that a 3rd or 4th dergree BB may teach in others there is an extensive training
e.g. in Shorinji Kempo (Doshin Sho) you are living in the school and it is a fulltime study for a couple of years

Have you ever had a teacher that teaches a new form and does is all the way all the time, he doesn't break it up, chances are you won't be able to do the form the next training
If he only had learned some psychology, he would have know to break it up into smaller learnable parts

[IPON]

e.g. in Shorinji Kempo (Doshin Sho)

This is off topic, but I know you are familiar with Kyokushin karate (I actually strated looking at teh dojo in NY) any pros/cons comparing it to Shorinji Kempo. I only know what I have seen on the hompage. Just curious

http://www.kyokushinkarate.com/

http://www.nyshorinji.org/

[brokenelbow]

This is off topic, but I know you are familiar with Kyokushin karate (I actually strated looking at teh dojo in NY) any pros/cons comparing it to Shorinji Kempo. I only know what I have seen on the hompage. Just curious

I train with some Kyokushin kai fighters. They train hard, they hit hard and they tend to walk (maybe charge is a better word) into long range kicks. They seem to enjoy doing this. Great style for bigger guys who tend more toward the brawling side of karate.

[Toudiyama[NL]]

Shorinji Kempo is the odd one out, it isn't karate, but wanted to point out that so called traditional arts there is a huge difference

Kyokushin are fighters, it is what they call budo karate, based on fighting, even though it has forms, you won't find someone that is specialized in forms like in other styles
It isn't really that important

They fight full contact, no gloves therefore no punches to the head ( well actually that is because the founder found punches to be much harder to block than a kick to the head because of speed)

I personally like Ashihara or Enshin ryu more, a bit less heads on so more moving the body out of range and positioning ( sabaki) Ashihara is offshoot of Kyokushin, Enshin of Ashihara

And BE is right, they are big men's styles

[IPON]

thanks for the information guys

[Toudiyama[NL]]

BTW actually the threads named wrong, it should be to make it a fighting style
As a sport on itself, it is a different story, you wouldn't want to change Basketball to have more contact like Football would you?
Sport is a game played by rules, the rules may change over time but not to make it more realistic, no to make it more pleasant to watch, to play or to judge

Don't know about your countries but in mine most of the people in MA are in it for the sports, they like it

BTW I could alway pinpoint who would dropout and then go to kickboxing, not because the like hard fighting but because they just lacked both the physical and the mental control to do karate
Latteron they didn't really get into competing so even for MT/kickboxing they were too uncontrolled, you know the haymaker type

When I did SD and demonstrated e.g. against a chokehold, the attack should be real, I forced them really to choke me, showing there is no need to panic strait away. and that I really have to make it work, yes first we train to prevent being choked but my point is if the attacks aren't real enough it is ineffective training
I've found that this is the hardest thing to do, a lot of karateka are scared to hit someone in the face during training and therefore pull their punches or aim them to the side of the head
I would say that at least WadoKarate draws less agressive people

BTW my reason for doing MA is I like the sports and I hate competition, I hated doing korfball and having a match every sunday
The only reason why I ever started competing was to help out the club to make a complete team

Karate as sport can be typified as tabletennis without the bats

[Thai Bri]

Or a ball.

[Thai Bri]

Or a table.

[Toudiyama[NL]]

yeah but that makes it less as a statement, which was from my dad
He also had one about grades which I corrected into, that man has more dergrees than a thermometer

But to get back, point (WKFtype)karate is a game, a sport on itself which doesn't have much to do with karate anymore

Like a Promotor WKFs main task is to organise competition, like a promotor they determine the rules of that game, only difference is that the Nat assocs have a say in it

[Thai Bri]

Or a net.....