Practicality of stances in realistic fights.

[Vamp]

I've just begun training in Bujinkan Ninjutsu and have covered the basic stances, Itchimonji, Doku, Jomunji, Eyen and the 5 basic Sanchen techniques.

MY question is, if I was ever in a situation whereas I needed to resort to using my Ninjutsu, would using those stances be a good idea? Or would you recommend I use Ninjutsu techniques in a normal Shizen style stance (Plain standing)?

I think one advantage you'd have in a fight is the element of surprize, is this not lost as soon as you give away to your opponent the fact that you're a martial artist by positioning yourself in a stance. This may cause them to resort to a more lethal approach, such as a gun, if they're afraid you might be a challenge to them.

Should stances be kept in the dojo and just be used for training to get balance and movement correct, or should they be used in the real world as well?

[m.artist]

in ninjutsu the shizan stance is for unpredictablity. that means u should always be in that stance becuz nothing is certain, so if something happens and ur jumped, u wanna be in that one, but for havins some guy come up to u and wants to fight, it doesn't matter what stance u use as long as ur center line is protected and u have a good view of him, and remember, only resort to fighting as a last resort

[Vamp]

So it's just as effective using stances such as itchimonji and using techniques stanceless? Stances just place you in the correct position to perform techniques easily, right?

[m.artist]

in a fight, u don't want to be hit right? so, always protect ur center line, that's should be ur number one priority
but getting into a stance that opens u up, make sure u have a clear view of what ur doing and then go for it, and remember, if u think in a fight, you've lost. never hesitate, or u'll be beaten

[chris davis 200]

i dont think you should view stances so individually

They are fluid - you move in an out of various stances all the time when in a real encounter. the best stance is NO stance. Just take the ideas and principles of the different stances - train them untill you just move in and out of them naturally - then you will move very well in combat.

cheers
chris

[Toudiyama[NL]]

the stances as they are learned in TMA are snapshots in time, what you see happening is that this and that stance are used for stability from a force from side a, what is forgotten is that some stances are meant to give the handtechniques more power, e.g. when pushing down dropping in a horsestance will put more power in it
Or it can prevent your opponent from properly applying his attack
Lowering your center of gravity might prevent a takedown

[Vamp]

the stances as they are learned in TMA are snapshots in time, what you see happening is that this and that stance are used for stability from a force from side a, what is forgotten is that some stances are meant to give the handtechniques more power, e.g. when pushing down dropping in a horsestance will put more power in it
Or it can prevent your opponent from properly applying his attack
Lowering your center of gravity might prevent a takedown

So you'd recommend using stances in a fight? Getting into a stance if you sense a something is about to happen?

[m.artist]

i wouldn't do the nessasarily(sp?) just u should always be prepared to jump into a good sturdy stance when the time arises....he's saying just be prepared, that's all

[Vamp]

Should I leave those stances in the Dojo and only use them when training?

The important thing I'm thinking about is what to do in a fight. use Ninjutsu techniques while in a normal shize (natural, standing) stance and stay in that stance

or use Dojo training and change my stance according to my technique, eg, start in Ichimonji, flow to Doku, back to Itchimonji and with every strike I block step 45 degrees diganoally, change hands and feet from Left to right etc.

The thing about stances such as Itchimonji is that anyone will know what hand you're going to punch with! it's rather obvious that if your left hand is on your chest and your right hand is extended that you'd strike with your left hand, and then when defending or finishing a strike, you switch sides so someone would notice the pattern that you're striking with alternate hands and side-stepping to alternate sides.



I'd say the best thing to do is just stand in shize and only use a stance for the absolute split second you're going to use a technique and than go back to shize. Or just apply all techniques in the shize stance.

[m.artist]

well when ur talking about stepping back and fourth between stances that should only occur if the opponent is moving. if not then u can stay in the original stance that ur already in

[chris davis 200]

I think you could do well to look up a guy called Geoff Thomson and look at his work with 'the fence' and stances.

you may find his material very interesting.

Chris

[Vamp]

I'm talking about stepping back just after blocking a strike.

[Half-Asleep]

with ninjutsu stances although i did Genbukan not Bujinkan some techniques require u to step back into your stances others can be performed from no stance, with the more advanced ninjutsu (so i have read) u don't use your set stances so much u just more use your experiance with your stances to learn how to move around, in a fight on the street chances are u won't have time to get into a proper stance but if u are performing a technique that requires u to move into stance as part of it then that is when u should move into your stance and choose what to do from there whether it be moving to another stance or running away.
Just flow between stances sometimes with no stance sometimes in other stances depending on what is appropriate to the situation.

he thing about stances such as Itchimonji is that anyone will know what hand you're going to punch with! it's rather obvious that if your left hand is on your chest and your right hand is extended that you'd strike with your left hand

u can punch with the hand that is forwards with a lunge its not nearly as effective but it does catch ppl off guard and all u need to do is go from defencive (weight on back leg) to offencive (pushing off back leg, weight moving to front leg)

[kodankan]

My teacher says to me
stay frosty, stay light on your feet always moving never stopping
always step off line to your opponents attack while closing the distance and countering while doing so.
No particular stance. when you train for a long time it is more of a way of moving than a particular stance
opponent strikes move inside his technique forward and to the side a bit, throwing his alignment to you off balance and putting you into perfect position to counter.
dont tense up either. relax, it wil make you faster.

[Half-Asleep]

My teacher says to me
stay frosty, stay light on your feet always moving never stopping
always step off line to your opponents attack while closing the distance and countering while doing so.
No particular stance. when you train for a long time it is more of a way of moving than a particular stance
opponent strikes move inside his technique forward and to the side a bit, throwing his alignment to you off balance and putting you into perfect position to counter.
dont tense up either. relax, it wil make you faster.

I think your teacher sounds like a smart guy