women as instructors

[SLK.fidget]

oh oh oh oh i hate the isshinryu fist also, vertical fist is ok, thumb on top is bad, well at least for me anyways, may be great for other people tho.

[M'ragon]

all i know is that the female instructors at my school are badass and they really make the classes tough, and sparring wise, the females are like the scariest people in the freakin world, man are they viscious and tough when u get then in the sparring ring, like for example my buddy was sparring one of the upper level females in our class and she was just goin crazy, she was sluggin him, so he decided to like full out hook kick her in the face, it didnt work, she kept comin, looked like it had the effect of throwin a grape at a brick wall, and my freind kicks harders than most people i have ever seen, so yeah women are tough and freaky at times, but its all good, i think its cool

LOL, you go girls! Seriously, sounds like they're overcompensating and trying to prove something. Do you think they have to work harder than the male instructors? Do you think they would get the same level of respect for their knowledge and teaching ability alone, or is it because they're so tough and hard? (Thanks for the post!)

[brokenelbow]

I've been instructing for about 3 or 4 years and have always found that I really have to "prove myself" to male teen and adult students.

Most teen males are insecure and trying to find their place in the pecking order. The very idea that a girl might be able to kick their butt is scary. And having to prove yourself to your clients is not a bad thing since they're laying out cash for your services. More male instructors should have to prove themselves.

There's not an automatic respect for the belt.

Why should there be? A belt really doesn't mean anything to a new person who doesn't know what was done to earn it, and it might mean something to an experienced martial artists but he wants to see if you know your stuff. It only has meaning by agreement to the people in that school and maybe to others in that style.

Good topic, I've had a couple a excellent female instructors and more bad ones. Same as male instructors.

[sherwinc]

LOL, you go girls! Seriously, sounds like they're overcompensating and trying to prove something. Do you think they have to work harder than the male instructors? Do you think they would get the same level of respect for their knowledge and teaching ability alone, or is it because they're so tough and hard? (Thanks for the post!)

as what i said before:
girls are not qualified to learn martial arts / or martial arts instructors

why?

cause if girls beat me in a street fight then they save/preserved their life

but.....

if i beat those non-kungfu girls [and then I post something really really stupid then I will get banned from this forum for certain. Edited by Szczepankiewicz]

and that is the reason why girls are not qualified to learn martial arts

[rkcann01]

Hi M'ragon,

My current master at my do-jang is a 45 year old woman, and though I respect her in many ways, I personally know that I could defeat her in sparring. So, a small area of credibility and respect is definately missing from our relationship as fellow martial artists. I am a 21 year old male by the way, and seeing as I grew up with at least 2 women who would periodically instruct me, I feel that I can give you some worth while input into your delima. As I said previously, there is some respect missing, but at my current status, I do not feel that the lack of sparring capabilities of my Master or instructor would in any way hinder my own effectivness in sparring. My point being that, though teens may give you a hard time, they will eventually mature into a more rightfull thinking. If they decide to part ways of your do-jang, because you are a woman, then by all means, help them pack. It's a flaw within themselves, and it is not something that you should have to fix about your self. I know that many in all Martial arts believe that fighting and self defense is the Core issue at hand, but to those who have made martial arts thier life, know that it is much more then how effective you can be in a tournament or in a knife fight. Teenage boys have a hard time grasping the lifestyle of the art. The flip side, however is that if you *are* an instructor or master, then you should definately have a certain level of guidance and effectiveness in sparring and in self defense that you can give to your students.

[Tiger Claw]

I am 21 as well and moved to the south from the north. I know that women are alot less agressive here. I think it would be a different story up north. There was a girl in my town known for being a great street fighter. She bet up many men, lol. They can do it, and I beleive it's a mental thing.

I like the ppl from the army at my dojang they are very devoted to tkd/kickboxing and put up such great sparring matches with me. I also like their attitude for begging for more workout.

As for an instructor they should be able to kick your ass until your high in their system. My master whoops me. He is also cross trained. He gets more respect from me for working on his tkd system though. He is also a great teacher despite of the sparring. I can beat my karate instructor and she also lacks confidents and does not apear to want to try enough. Anyways point sparring doesn't help anything but point sparring . She has my respect for being open minded. My stances are too wide for that styles katas and she doesn't mind. I get yelled at for bowing the japanese way at my dojang. I pick up bad habbits if done too much (bowing that way is a disrespect to tkd and if they were korean probly would kick my ass or throw me out of the dojang) .



"oh oh oh oh i hate the isshinryu fist also, vertical fist is ok, thumb on top is bad, well at least for me anyways, may be great for other people tho."


I really don't get why they put their thumb on top of their fist and punch sideways to the face. I get alot more speed and power with regular corkscrew punches. I can understand a side ways fist sort of punch to a rib cage (I do that rather than a corkscrew punch). I think it is a good habbit from practicing eagle's beak punches to ribs from kenpo or the fact that it is more logical to hit to the ribs with that punch. They are known as dragon fists in kung fu. Their intent is to break ribs and has happened at my old kenpo dojo with this punch. I forgot the name of the tkd version.

[M'ragon]

Your points are well taken, brokenelbow (I suppose I could call myself brokentoe - maybe not as impressive ). I guess part of me resents having to participate in all that alpha male stuff. And you're right, the males should have to prove themselves if I have to! I want to teach and promote the art, I just hate having to bloody noses or blacken eyes to do it.
As far as the belt goes, I'm going to disagree with you. When a student signs on, I'd like to assume they've done their homework and are choosing a style and dojo they respect. And often the young men who demonstrate the most attitude with me are not the beginners, but the ones who have been there a while and are starting to think they're all that. They may be new to my class (coming up from the kids' class) but not to the dojo. You may be right about the insecurity thing! Thanks for your input. Btw, what qualities do you think make an "excellent" female instructor?

[M'ragon]

Hi M'ragon,

My current master at my do-jang is a 45 year old woman, and though I respect her in many ways, I personally know that I could defeat her in sparring. So, a small area of credibility and respect is definately missing from our relationship as fellow martial artists. I am a 21 year old male by the way, and seeing as I grew up with at least 2 women who would periodically instruct me, I feel that I can give you some worth while input into your delima. As I said previously, there is some respect missing, but at my current status, I do not feel that the lack of sparring capabilities of my Master or instructor would in any way hinder my own effectivness in sparring. My point being that, though teens may give you a hard time, they will eventually mature into a more rightfull thinking. If they decide to part ways of your do-jang, because you are a woman, then by all means, help them pack. It's a flaw within themselves, and it is not something that you should have to fix about your self. I know that many in all Martial arts believe that fighting and self defense is the Core issue at hand, but to those who have made martial arts thier life, know that it is much more then how effective you can be in a tournament or in a knife fight. Teenage boys have a hard time grasping the lifestyle of the art. The flip side, however is that if you *are* an instructor or master, then you should definately have a certain level of guidance and effectiveness in sparring and in self defense that you can give to your students.

Hey rkcann01: Thanks for your response. Your situation is actually pretty close to mine (with roles reversed!). It's good that you still respect your instructor because, hey, if you are a 21 year old guy, you have some physical advantages over a 45 year old female. I actually feel kind of proud when my students score on me - I always think I've taught them well! Hopefully you'll agree that it's not just about sparring but that there are multiple dimensions. Thanks for your views, it helps. I suppose I'll have to keep on doing what I'm doing and just not get so annoyed.

[brokenelbow]

I want to teach and promote the art, I just hate having to bloody noses or blacken eyes to do it.

At your rank you shouldn't have to, you may have a gap in your training if you're doing that. What style of karate are you doing?

As far as the belt goes, I'm going to disagree with you. When a student signs on, I'd like to assume they've done their homework and are choosing a style and dojo they respect.

Most people pick a school based on price and location, so you're starting out with what is a wrong assumption and wrong expectations for most new students.

And often the young men who demonstrate the most attitude with me are not the beginners, but the ones who have been there a while and are starting to think they're all that.

That's typical with advancement in rank. In my experience schools that emphasize respect goes with rank are always going to have that problem. The best model for rank IMO is BJJ. One of the few arts where you'll here someone with more rank compliment the skills of someone below them. And all of their ranks are earned by being able to hang with others of that rank. Most karate rank is based upon non-combat criterea and it shows. You can guess that rank doesn't mean much to me.

Btw, what qualities do you think make an "excellent" female instructor?

The same things that make an excellent male instructor. Knowlage of the art, teaching ability and being able to use the art as well as they can.

Tiger Claw,
"I really don't get why they put their thumb on top of their fist and punch sideways to the face." The thumb is on top to make the wrist stronger. What do you mean by punching sideways to the face?

[M'ragon]

Thanks Brokenelbow, the style is traditional Wado. And I don't mean to suggest that rank and hierarchy is so rigidly emphasized. Rather the focus is on the individual journey. The belt is never a "gift" though, it is always well-earned.
I enjoy seeing growth and improvement and skill acquisition in all the students. I do wish that some of the guys would worry less about who can beat who (or whether they can score on the instructor who weighs 100 lbs. less and is a foot shorter and who is more concerned with making them a better figher against more realistic opponents!) and instead go for self improvement (mind, body, spirit).
One thing I hope not to do on this forum is get involved in arguing about which style is best - they all have strengths and benefits. Cheers.

[M'ragon]

Thank you, Szczepankiewicz.

[brokenelbow]

Just asking about style to see what you were doing. One TKD master I had would let someone just beat themselves against him. They punched or kicked, the master would block it so it hurt like hell. You kicked air because he'd shift a little. After wearing youself out like this for a while he'd say thank you, very good and let you sit down. But he never hit you. If you were a badass and were acting really inappropriately he'd do the same thing but before saying thank you he'd beat the piss out of you.

I'm not into the karate builds character self improvement philosophy. I go with karate is for beating the piss out of someone.

[M'ragon]

I'm not into the karate builds character self improvement philosophy. I go with karate is for beating the piss out of someone.

lol, yeah okay I guess it all boils down to that

[brokenelbow]

LOL, I guess it does.

How often does your dojo spar? What does the chief instructor say about the problem?

[IPON]

I've been instructing for about 3 or 4 years and have always found that I really have to "prove myself" to male teen and adult students. There's not an automatic respect for the belt.

Welcome!!

Wel I somewhat agree and diagree regarding respect for the belt. I do feel ppl should have respect for a BB and dojo etiquette. But, the person wearing the belt may not be diserving of such respect. I have had female instructors and for the most part I have not had a problem, but some are fluffy (weak blocks, strikes, etc) and as a result cause themselves to loose full respect.

I do agree that both men/women need to earn respect. And it is a MA, while there are many aspects to training, fighting is the main goal. I don't believe in the silent wall of the BB-anyone can be beat. If I sparr with you and you talk the talk and can't walk the walk of course I loose respect. The women (and men) that I have had respect for clearly understood fighting, hard work and took training very serious (that is not an attack on Wado Ryu I know very little about it). I know one of the forum members Toudiyama(NL) is a Wado RYU instructor he may have some insights as well


So the question may be what image are you projecting to the students. The reality is that thes students are your customers since ppl are not "accepted"as students anymore. The burden of proof is on teh instructor to prove themselves which may be mo0re than just teaching the techniques.

As an aside there is a female instructor that is about 70 yrs teaching hapkido she is about 5'4" and tough as nails and nice as an angel. Her workouts are brutal and captures everyones respect (not becuase of her age) she works hard and she will sparr (I mean you have to keep it in context no full) but the fact she will do that is amazing and there are definately ppl she would take out if it were a street situation.

just my 2 cents