On the Ground, on your feet, or in the air

[SiouxDogEater]

I'm pretty much a newbie to martial arts. Right now I am studying ninjitsu. I want to know what you guys may think is the best position. I tend to think that no matter the position you can still be in control. I want to be effective on the ground in a take down, or being taken dowwn, and stading. Sensei has me spend a lot of time with ukemi. Rolling a lot these days. I am finding that I am able to take the ground better when i am thrown or taken down a bit better now then before. I suspect it will get better. Anyhow.

Just looking for what you think.

SiouxDogEater

[Hikage]

Air -- never.

Feet -- That's the ticket laddy... Remember, you have eight angles.. foward, backwards, left, right, and all the diagonals. Learn how to move along these angles and how to use then effectively against your opponenet. Ask your sensei about Nokozuchi and how to best use these angles. That's the key. Remember, your feet are your second pair of eyes, more important than your hands. (that's the short of it.)

Ground -- Good for women and one on one attacks, bouncers, etc, bad for multiple attackers. In rape defense, we teach women to allow their attacker to take them down. This evens the fight. When you're on the ground things slow down considerably. Also, the fight is even. Both of you have something to push against, the ground. This is a judgement call tho. Probabaly there are some who would tell you to ALWAYS stay off of the ground. Personally, I only go to ground if I have to. I always control my man on the ground, but I don't necessarily lay on top of hiim or anything.
The ukemi that you are practicing are key. Many peole are afraid to fall in a fight. This teaches you to have one less fear and it gets your more comfortable if you do go down. Practice these ukemi with diligence, learn to love the ground. Sleep on a rock..

-Hikage

[Hikage]

ADDEMDUM:

Ignore all those who will tell you that Ninjitsu is crap. (they're coming. They hate threads like this.) They will tell you that it doesn't work because people won't stand there and let you do all that to them... this is completely true... they won't. Ignore them... because if time goes on, your instructor (if he's worth his salt, there are many in ninjitsu who aren't) will teach you to utilize 'pops' to loosen your man. These are quick, very short, often forgotten, and almost unseen strikes, pokes, pinches, slaps, to convice your man that "he really does want to fall down" and they have nothing to do with compliance.

The key is accuracy, not speed. You'll see all this in time. Don't get drug in to letting people throw at you in practice with elongated steps. Make them throw short, as a boxer might with their feet under their hips. Learn to off-balance. Play. Learn to play. Do these things and no one will be able to touch you because they won't understand what you're doing. People have seen the 'punch block kick.' They are not prepared for someone who knows how to manipulate a man's body with ease, off-balance him, and take him down with control. Once you get it, a whole world of options will open up.

-Hikage

[Smart Fighter]

Anyone who would call Ninjutsu/Ninpo crap, wears their intellect, or lack there of, on their sleeve for all to see. The problem is, that through western media, ninpo has been romanticized, and misrepresented without fail, or limitations. Sadly, there is also the sect of people out there that wish to ride the wagon so to speak, and proclaim themselves Ninja masters. Offering bogus and useless training and techniques. The Ninja are historically evident, and their practice techniques can be researched, so with some careful consideration one can weed out the sensationalists. Often in the west, people tend to belittle that which they dont understand, and Ninpo has been at the forefront of these "naysayers" on several MA Forums. Remember, what you do is for your fulfillment, so dont worry about the opinions of others, most anti Ninja opinions are baseless, and offer no real substance, most can be simply ignored. The only pet peeve I have is when they say that Ninjutsu is crap because you dont see it in UFC or K1, as if these tourneys were even remotely like actual combat. Thats just ludicrous. You dont see these people in those tourneys because reality based, combatant trained, or spiritually guided Martial Artist are not interested in such competitions. Stephen K. Hayes, a very prominent person in Ninpo circles, and very qualified and superior Martial Artist. Oddly Ive never seen him in any sport competitions, so I guess in the eyes of the masses that makes him not good enough. Yet the Dalai Lama chose him as a personal bodyguard. Hmmm, I wonder who is the more wise here? Ninjutsu is valid my friend, enjoy your training, and use the time to learn all there is to know about yourself, the rest will come naturally.

[CrescentDreams]

hey guys,
im very new to MA as well. From what ive heard ninjutsu sounds like a very good art....it stresses fluidity instead of "dead patterns" and teaches how to use the surrounding to your advantage (so ive heard). Ive wanted to learn it but the closest dojo is about 1hr and a half away.I'm hoping to find a personal trainer but i might just do jj instead since there is a dojo nearby.
But enuff of that...back on topic....

In the air, you :
are easier to knock down
can't change direction
they can see/hear you coming from a mile away

On foot you don't have those disadvantages.

On the ground you are at a disadvantage if he is standing up. But if you are both on the ground you can end fight qiuckly...just stay on top and you'll be fine...heh.

[Thai Bri]

Stephen K. Hayes, a very prominent person in Ninpo circles, and very qualified and superior Martial Artist. Oddly Ive never seen him in any sport competitions, so I guess in the eyes of the masses that makes him not good enough. Yet the Dalai Lama chose him as a personal bodyguard. Hmmm, I wonder who is the more wise here? Ninjutsu is valid my friend, enjoy your training, and use the time to learn all there is to know about yourself, the rest will come naturally.

Yes, because everyone knows that the Dalai Lama knows about fighting......

Admittedly I cannot remember the details. But Stephen Heyes got the shit kicked out of him a few years ago during one of his classes. It was one of those "attack me how you want" moments, but he picked the wrong guy. Rather than a wilfully blind student, he chose an open minded, undecided hard guy, who beat the shit out of him.

Ninjitsu is a whole bunch of silliness. I have no doubt that there were some fearsome and highly trained assassins back in Feudal Japan. But the pyjama wearing siliness of today has little to do with it.

By the way, you tel women to let themselves be takren down in rape defence? You should be sued. Its like training a zoo keeper to stick his head in an elephants anus.

[chris davis 200]

well put bri, i agree with everything you said.

chris

[SiouxDogEater]

Some of you guys just don't get it. Im not looking for a debate on Ninjitsu. If it is real or not. I am looking for intelegent feedback to my question. Stop putting your opinions in about the wrong subject, pay attention and give some actual experience info. Thats all I want. Quit bitching about how your art is better and how my art sucks. You sound like a little brat... my dad can beat your dad... grow the f... up.

Big deal, Steven Hays was beat. That means he's human. That means he's not a martial arts god. I bet you did not know that when he went for his 5th dan test and went to the hospital. His head was cracked open with a bokken. Next few times he had to where a motorcycle helmat.

Big deal. Some people are good, some people suck but somewhere in life you will always get beat. In every art.

Now, back to the question. I believe it had something to do with best position?Feet or ground. Right.

Thanks!

SiouxDogEater

[Thai Bri]

Of course everyone can be beat. But not everyone claims to be a "Master" of an incredible art that gives you super human powers.

You Anus Face.

[wardancer]

I'm pretty much a newbie to martial arts. Right now I am studying ninjitsu. I want to know what you guys may think is the best position. I tend to think that no matter the position you can still be in control. I want to be effective on the ground in a take down, or being taken dowwn, and stading. Sensei has me spend a lot of time with ukemi. Rolling a lot these days. I am finding that I am able to take the ground better when i am thrown or taken down a bit better now then before. I suspect it will get better. Anyhow.

Just looking for what you think.

SiouxDogEater

If you end up on the ground, which is where you are more likely to end in any fight unless you have a referee that stop it: I would advise to try to do the guard: both legs locked on the opponent back. Once you get more experience, you might want to try open guard (unlock feets).
The guard will give you a control on your opponent.

[IPON]

The only pet peeve I have is when they say that Ninjutsu is crap because you dont see it in UFC or K1

Actually, Steve Jennum is a Ninjutsu stylist and he won the UFC (I am not sure which one I believe between UFC III-VI)

[chris davis 200]

Quit bitching about how your art is better and how my art sucks. You sound like a little brat... my dad can beat your dad... grow the f... up.

Dont remember anyone saying their art was better?

anyways ....

i think that a focus on any one area could be a mistake - the key is to train in a manner that allows you to be 'profficient' in all areas.

But also i depends what you are talking about here.

Street fighting or competition - there are some fairly heavy changes in tactics from one to the other.

Provide some more info and we can give some clearer responces.

regards
Chris

[Thai Bri]

Actually, Steve Jennum is a Ninjutsu stylist and he won the UFC (I am not sure which one I believe between UFC III-VI)

It was UFC3. Gracie beat Kimo but then oculd not continue due to injury, so he was out. Shamrock could not continue due to injury....so he was out. Jennum came in as an alternate. He didn't fight his way up there at all. And hten he beat some other no mark to win the title.

He then also went on to have a particularly unimpressive record...... so I don't reckon that this counts for much.

[jcmack]

Can you really judge a martial art off of one competitor. No one even knows for sure how long he has been training. I have been training in ninjutsu for many many years now and it has served me well. When I was 21-23 years old I worked as a bouncer in a downtown bar in Memphis. I probably had over 60 scrapes. Some of the people were drunk, some weren't. Some were big, some were small, some could fight, some couldn't, some were armed, and then there were a couple who seemed to be well trained fighters. Ninjutsu seemed to be an extremely good fighting system to me. Me, anyone who knows me, or anyone who has ever tried to fight me can vouch for it.

[Beginner]

I guess your asking in relation to real life scenarios.

IMHO, on your feet is best. You have more control on your own movements. Most times out on the streets, you really don't need to stay there & fight with them until they're totally down. Assuming you're just walking down the street & someone attempts to jump you. If you're aware of your surroundings & saw the attack coming, all you need to do is evade the attack (in whatever technique you were trained in to do so for a particular mode of attack) & get the heck out of there. You also don't want to be taken down. I'm 5'6" & most of the people I see are way bigger than I am. I cannot risk being shot from beneath me.

Of course this doesn't mean you would not need to train fighting on the ground. Learning & training as much as you can is key in becoming a great martial artist.