Pretty good Ninja oriented site

[shadowkiller]

No offense meant there man. Its just that almost everything I have seen of aikido is faked and looks unrealistic. It seemed that all the people being thrown or what have you were too helpfull if you know what I mean.

They were in the air before the guy finished the move.

[Alvaro Lobato]

Aikido - Unrealistic MA ?

I understand that perfectly.

Steven Seagal says that the most difficult part of Aikido is having to "unlearn" before you can practice it. What this means is that you have to relax in order the art to flow - this is generally the opposite of what we do in a fight. The result is that Aikido is a very difficult art to learn.

One of the commonly mistakes outsiders do is confusing the acceptance of the technique, figuring that, in fact, the person who applied this technique had the help of the uke. This is not (generally) true - Aikido torsions are very harmful (wrist, shoulder and elbows) and must have the "cooperation" of the attacker (uke) so nobody get hurts.

The downside of this practice is that you generally can not practice at completally full speed/strength/energy in order to prevent accidents. This is one of the advantages of, for instance, BJJ, where you can let your dogs out without hurting nobody.

Of course there are harder styles, with more strightforward approach, but I belive they are dangerous (no matter what people may say in contrary).

The great upside of Aikido, besides its relaxing spirit and harmony effect is that you can have better control of your opponent, thus, being able to minimize the damage caused in an attack. For instance, you do not have to kick his ass or blow his face.

Do not fool yourself, it is VERY dangerous to hold a good Aikido practioneer !

This said, once again I mention that in some dojos, REAAAALLLYY weak blows or kicks are applied and unrealistic techniques performed.

Finally, no matter what technique you practice, I always recommend cross-trainning, which gives you a complete array of techniques and better understanding of other arts.

[jubaji]

Of course there are harder styles, with more strightforward approach, but I belive they are dangerous (no matter what people may say in contrary).

In what way?

[Tom Yum]

I understand that perfectly.

Steven Seagal says that the most difficult part of Aikido is having to "unlearn" before you can practice it. What this means is that you have to relax in order the art to flow - this is generally the opposite of what we do in a fight. The result is that Aikido is a very difficult art to learn.

One of the commonly mistakes outsiders do is confusing the acceptance of the technique, figuring that, in fact, the person who applied this technique had the help of the uke. This is not (generally) true - Aikido torsions are very harmful (wrist, shoulder and elbows) and must have the "cooperation" of the attacker (uke) so nobody get hurts.

Do not fool yourself, it is VERY dangerous to hold a good Aikido practioneer !

That is why it takes sooo long before aikido can be effective.

Aikido seems to use motion to its advantage. If the uke did not roll with the lock, he would break his wrist or shoulder. Aikido techniques seem good at the initial escalation of a fight against a push, pull or basic grappling hold but also seem more defensive once punches get thrown which could put them at a disadvantage against a fast striker.

[Alvaro Lobato]

In what way?

Jubaji,

I knew I could be messing with fire in this sentence...

Well, I have practiced with different masters in Brazil and have seen those who practice Aikido in a more gentle, round way (not necessarily non martial) and in a more Steven Seagal way, for instance, in the irimi-nague - smaller movements.

You must remember I am 40 and although I try a lot to be in shape, I have my own business and two kids to take care of :-). Therefore you can consider the below written comments of an old man...

Well, what I feel (and I MEAN FEEEEL) is that whenever I practice with people that tend to apply techniques in a fast manner or even in the pain limit of the uke, you have a greater chance of accident.

I said before, and say again, I sense there is some people that has never practiced any other MA, only Aikido. Sometimes, in order to give a more "realistic" approach, the risks are increased by the above mentioned practice. I practice kickboxing and BJJ and feel much more confortable in "putting my anger out" in those arts.

What I prefer is, for instance, receiveing a fast strong punch but, as soon as I have guaranteed the wrist in my grip, to apply the technique in a more soft way. After all, the uke had lend me his body to practice, no to be destroyed.

I hope I do not generate too much mess with those comments...

[Alvaro Lobato]

That is why it takes sooo long before aikido can be effective.

Aikido seems to use motion to its advantage. If the uke did not roll with the lock, he would break his wrist or shoulder. Aikido techniques seem good at the initial escalation of a fight against a push, pull or basic grappling hold but also seem more defensive once punches get thrown which could put them at a disadvantage against a fast striker.

With the risk of loosing my Aikido belt I´d say you are right.

Of course one can always complain that in Aikido we learn to defend from punches, but I´d agree with your point o view of "initial instances of the fight". On the other hand, should I meet a fast-good striker, I would quickly jump on his side/back and look for some locks.

It has been said a lot of times that the big difference is the skill of the fighter, not necessarily in the MA he knows. I couldn´t agree more with that and also add that the situation makes all the difference.

Once, in my store a huge guy (200 or more lbs, very strong) created a bad situation, screaming all over. I tried to calm him down (I am 160 lbs) but he got my wrist and started to threaten me. Well, I didn´t want to fight or destroy my business, so I just turned my wrist and gently pulled him a little down; he almost fell and stayed embarassed, ending the story the way I wanted it - talking.

Let us also remember in the UFC, when BJJ got famous because nobody knew how to fight in the ground. After 2 or 3 years, everybody knew, at least the basics, and the Gracies had virtually disappeared as the dominant team.

The lesson is clear - learn everything you can and apply it correctly depending on the situation.

[Hikage]

Jubaji,

I knew I could be messing with fire in this sentence...

Well, I have practiced with different masters in Brazil and have seen those who practice Aikido in a more gentle, round way (not necessarily non martial) and in a more Steven Seagal way, for instance, in the irimi-nague - smaller movements.

You must remember I am 40 and although I try a lot to be in shape, I have my own business and two kids to take care of :-). Therefore you can consider the below written comments of an old man...

Well, what I feel (and I MEAN FEEEEL) is that whenever I practice with people that tend to apply techniques in a fast manner or even in the pain limit of the uke, you have a greater chance of accident.

I said before, and say again, I sense there is some people that has never practiced any other MA, only Aikido. Sometimes, in order to give a more "realistic" approach, the risks are increased by the above mentioned practice. I practice kickboxing and BJJ and feel much more confortable in "putting my anger out" in those arts.

What I prefer is, for instance, receiveing a fast strong punch but, as soon as I have guaranteed the wrist in my grip, to apply the technique in a more soft way. After all, the uke had lend me his body to practice, no to be destroyed.

I hope I do not generate too much mess with those comments...

Alvaro,

I see you here as a recreation ball, not as a baseball. You have a good cover around what you are saying, but unlike a baseball, there doesn't seem to be anything to it. I feel as if you are throwing out phrases w/o really having a direction. I.E., jubaji asked you to "fill in the rest of your ball" by expounding on a statement that you made. Unfortunately, you seem to have gone back on what you said. You said that other styles are being dangerous, but then you go on to explain why you practice aikido safely. I understand that you are defending aikido and how peolpe feel that they are attacking movements that they don't understand. I, of all people, can empathize. However, I am having trouble getting past the feeling that your explanations are hollow and I fail to see the real reason that you are defending aikido, considering aikido never came up on this thread.

-Hikage