Karate- what chances does it stand on the street?

[brokenelbow]

However, what about Okinawan kobudo weapons that were farming tools, like oar and nunchuku?

I believe that they looked similar to farm tools but were in fact individual weapons.

I forgot to take into account that there weren't just samurai and then "the farmer people," there were classes of people inbetween.

The most logical explaination I've heard was that since Okinawa was a trading area many ruffians would come in on the ships. So the upper classes had body guards and some of the common folk also trained.

the techniques of karate and kobudo were created by the Okinawan farmers to combat the samurai, since samurai were often bullies

And a highly trained samuri with top of the line weapons would be defeated by a farmer with a set of nunchucks? Sorry Broadsword2004, I think someone is feeding you some fairy tales.

Also, I had heard that the reason the Japanese adopted the method of punching iron 'till their hands got super hard was because the Chinese method used the herbs and started on with punching sand, then gravel, then like rock or wood, but since the people who fought the samurai needed hard hands quickly, they just did it the quick way,

Where are you getting this from? Nobody fought the samuri, Okinawa fell in three days to a single clan.

[team money]

addvise

all you have to do is just use what you know and if you lose then all you have to do is find out what you have messed up on and train harder to be to beat another challenger

[Broadsword2004]

I forget exactly where, but from multiple sources, it had said that the reason the Japanese arts don't use the healing herbs and the slower iron palm training, but just the faster, "start punching steel the first day" method was because they didn't have time to train that long to fight the samurai. But who knows, you are probably right, as there is a lot of balony floating around about Japanese martial arts.

Hey, I have heard that it is also a myth that the samurai loved the sword and hated like the bow and arrow, that that is just something the Japanese made up later on; supposedly, the samurai used archery and other weapons all the time, moreso then the sword even. Just wondering if you know if that is true or not.

[brokenelbow]

Okinawan arts have methods for iron body as do the Japanese. I've never heard of Okinawans or Japanese karateka punching steel, but that's not to say it wasn't practiced by someone. Can't see how destroying your hand quicker will teach you an art faster. The fastest way that I've seen to get someone up to speed is to emphasize tai sabaki and how & where to hit, against a training partner. I thought that the samurai were excellent archers. Bow a long range battlefield weapon and the sword the in close weapon.

[Toudiyama[NL]]

I thought that the samurai were excellent archers. Bow a long range battlefield weapon and the sword the in close weapon.

there were different classes of samurai, samurai means servant, any soldier was a samurai, you had archer, guys who would use the lance(yari), or hellbard ( naginata), the most proficient sword fighters would only do that, so they would not involve in archery or the other things

Appart from that I do not understand why so often I see samurai being mentioned in threads about karate, the 2 have nothing to do with eachother

[brokenelbow]

I'd guess it's because some of the early Shotokan students were also students of kendo.

[Toudiyama[NL]]

I'd guess it's because some of the early Shotokan students were also students of kendo.

Yeah Konishi was a kendo master who allowed Funakoshi and his assistand/best student Ohtsuka to teach karate in his Dojo ( which was unusual for that time)
but doing kendo isn't being a samurai is it? Kendo is the sport that was created out of the Kenjutsu the samurai did

[kengar]

Some years ago most of my fighting ability came from Karate and it got me out of a number of situations ranging from little threat to very serious. It saved my ass. Now, I think I can comfortably say that having a better understanding of street realities, adrenaline, and gross motor techniques I feel far more tactically fit than before.

[sirmattu]

now granted I don't know anything about karate, but doesn't it make more sense to try and take a step back from a front kick, then step in and commense to beat them to death?

dude one of the last things you want to do is just backup from a kick, ive made a mistake and done the same thing . a lot of fighters fight better when backing up. example- my kickboxing instructor throws kicks which you can easeily backup from to set up a spinning hook kick or an expanded rev. axe kick.

[DKMerriwether]

What????

Why is it so hard to believe that a Karateka defeated a Muay Thai person.I'm at lost to understand why some on this board feel that just because it was a Karateka, that automatically means they are no good in DEFENDING themselves. Is it customary for Muay Thai guys to go around and start fights? This is a lack of DICIPLINE, which can get you killed.You guys must live in cities where people dont carry weapons, and therefore,you can just walk up to someone and start a fight just because of a TEE-SHIRT THEY WEAR! Muay Thai practioners are just as human as anyone else. How can I say this,I pratice Muay Thai and I havent seen anyone invincible. If you have an argument to make,please make it more than "just because its Muay Thai", because that makes it seem that you dont have an intelligent and/or a thought provoking response to contribute....Thank You.

D. Merriwether

[Phorce]

hmmmm......correct me if im wrong, but this stepping in action that was mentioned earlier is either ten/teni/tengi or noru/nasu/nagasu.....its basically attacking whilst being attacked. Bruce Lee mentions a little about this in that it can prevent his attack, whilst penetrating his defence at the same time- only if your faster.


Although ive had a lot of feedback, i still think the best thing for me to do is train and train, then one day ill be in the right place at the right time, and he wont stand a chance (hopefully).

[old skool dude]

Steet fight

Thanks for the info. Pretty much common sense I guess. Are there any martial artists here that have lost a street fight?

The great thing about street fights are they're FAST!
The worst thing about street fights are they're FAST!

So....does Karate "work" in a street fight?
It all depends on how you're training.

If you're training on things like awareness, reaction time, hitting hard and fast, sensitivity and killer instinct then you've got a chance.

If you're training things like kata and philosophy, light sparring then you've got....less of a chance.

Karate training if DONE RIGHT will teach you not to flinch when you're under pressure of attack and will develop in you a type of killer instinct to retaliate quickly and decisively, or at least weather the storm of an attack until you can get an opportunity to counter attack.

Get yourself out of your stance, take off your gi and practice in your street clothes. Practice hitting target, whether they're foam pads, trees, or other people. Get accustomed to hitting in off balanced positions.
Practice your basics.
Front kick to the groin...I've used it. It works
Knee to the groin...I've used it. It works.
Knife hand to the side of neck and the adams apple....yup...the old fashioned "karate chop" does work.
Elbow strikes.
clawing to the eyes.
Trust me, you can even use that Kiai to scare the living daylights out of people. But yell like someone just set fire to your nutsac! and not that sissy "kiai!" sound that those little kids use in those tiger shulman commercials!
Good luck.

[Tant01]

I forget exactly where, but from multiple sources, it had said that the reason the Japanese arts don't use the healing herbs and the slower iron palm training, but just the faster, "start punching steel the first day" method was because they didn't have time to train that long to fight the samurai. But who knows, you are probably right, as there is a lot of balony floating around about Japanese martial arts.

Hey, I have heard that it is also a myth that the samurai loved the sword and hated like the bow and arrow, that that is just something the Japanese made up later on; supposedly, the samurai used archery and other weapons all the time, moreso then the sword even. Just wondering if you know if that is true or not.

Great thread, overall... Interesting thing about history is how it falls away from facts to fill a revised version. In the 1500's Japan led the world in firearms production. They made more guns than Spain and Great Britain. Probably to defeat all those pesky archers, eh?

[Phorce]

The great thing about street fights are they're FAST!
The worst thing about street fights are they're FAST!

So....does Karate "work" in a street fight?
It all depends on how you're training.

If you're training on things like awareness, reaction time, hitting hard and fast, sensitivity and killer instinct then you've got a chance.

If you're training things like kata and philosophy, light sparring then you've got....less of a chance.

Karate training if DONE RIGHT will teach you not to flinch when you're under pressure of attack and will develop in you a type of killer instinct to retaliate quickly and decisively, or at least weather the storm of an attack until you can get an opportunity to counter attack.

Get yourself out of your stance, take off your gi and practice in your street clothes. Practice hitting target, whether they're foam pads, trees, or other people. Get accustomed to hitting in off balanced positions.
Practice your basics.
Front kick to the groin...I've used it. It works
Knee to the groin...I've used it. It works.
Knife hand to the side of neck and the adams apple....yup...the old fashioned "karate chop" does work.
Elbow strikes.
clawing to the eyes.
Trust me, you can even use that Kiai to scare the living daylights out of people. But yell like someone just set fire to your nutsac! and not that sissy "kiai!" sound that those little kids use in those tiger shulman commercials!
Good luck.

Thanks!


ill take it in mind.

[bewing77]

Karate cant beat Muay Thai

Karate cant beat BJJ

Karate cant beat Submission Wrestling

but.....

Karate will beat Tae Kwon Do

Hmm, I didn't know Karate or any MA for that matter could fight... a karate practicioner maybe...

Anyways, I must step up to the defence of TKD here. Even though I no longer practice I still think it has it's merits. The ITF style I practiced is nothing like what you see in WTF competitions. Those competitions to me are quite comical, with to guys standing there in full pads, jumping up and down, arms hanging limply at their sides. This however has nothing to do with the more classical ITF I trained. It is very unglamorous, few high kicks, equal amounts of striking and kicking and even takedowns and grappling (mostly focusing on takedown defense). The focus was very much to quickly either disable the opponent or getting the hell out if neccesary. Delivering devastating damage as quickly as possible. That makes it very useful in alot of "real" situations where everything happens quickly and ends quickly, wher striking first and catching the opponent off guard is what matters. It makes it a far less useful art in the UFC etc.

IMO any MA where you spar alot, preferably with heavy or full contact will prepare you well for the street, giving you experience in how a blow feels and to keep your nerve.