Real jujutsu

[Hardball]

I got my Black Belt in Japanese Jujitsu back in April 04. It took me 6 1/2 years to complete considering injuries, illness and miscellaneous problems. My Black Belt test lasted from 9:30 a.m. until 3:30 pm. with a short break at mid day. I had to demonstrate basic kicks, punches, blocks, and parries. Next was soft throws, hard throws, takedowns and locks. The locks were wrist locks, arm bars, knee locks, ankle locks and finger locks. Next up were ground techniques, kneeling and weapons disarms. I had a couple hours of Kata and randori. There were foot throws and sweeps such as o uchi, ko soto, gake, de ashi, ko uchi and the like. I tested in finger locks, neck breaks, shoulder breaks and sacrifice throws.

I had to do pushups and situps all day long in between techniques. {hundreds and hundreds} At the end of my test I had to spar 3 black belts at once {mulitple attack situation}. I was in total exhaustion and not able to do very much against these Black Belt testers. The point is; The testing panel took me to "Total Exhaustion" then made me spar until I had an Outer Body experience. The Last thing I had to do was disarm my instructor who was holding a Real .40 caliber Glock to my face. {unloaded}

After I passed and got awarded my Shodan; we had a traditional Japanese Tea Ceremony.

Jujitsu is real (Just as every art is) but you have to constantly practice and know how to apply your art in combat.

[Jeremy Lobdell]

ON the right path

I'm not sure where you were going with that Hardball, but your test sounds about right. The origional question was what was Japanese Jujitsu like BEFORE 1812. Nobody was talking trash about jj. JJ was my first art, and I now hold dan rank in 4 different styles of Japanese Jujitsu. The most important thing for you to realize is that blackbelt is just the beginning. Now it should be time for your instructor to show you some really cool stuff.
Mahalo, Jeremy

[LoneWolf1]

Belt systems in traditional jujutsu??

I didn't think most traditional schools used the belt system, is this common, i thought they used kyu and dan ranks though some don't even use that.

[Jeremy Lobdell]

Traditional belts

In jujitsu schools in japan, you are a white belt until you get your blackbelt. Usually by then, the white belt (never wash it) is so dirty, it looks black. Kyu ranks are common in the western world, but not in Japan.

[Hardball]

The last level of Brown Belt is 1 Kyu (Nikyu) and the 1st level of black belt is (ShoDan)

Just discussing japanese jujitsu in relation to the question. Keeping it simple and using common sense. Jujitsu before 1812, I don't know I'm not a historian; but I do know that the world has changed and so has combat. Those who don't adapt to change won't survive. Most good instructors improvise to include topics of modern combat such as dynamic attacks and multiple attack situations. Master the Basics and the fundamentals and you will survive.

[Jeremy Lobdell]

Most good instructors improvise to include topics of modern combat such as dynamic attacks and multiple attack situations. will survive.

How many instructors have you had? It sounds like this was your first art and your first shodan. A definite congradulations is in order. That will always be your hardest one. I remember my first BB test, the year was 1989, the sky was blue, the grass was green, and I got the crap kicked out of me for 8 hours strait. Ah the good old days. It's always the worst (your first bb test) because most JJ schools don't tell you ahaid of time and you just walk into class one day and everyone is smiling at you. All the high level Black belts from affiliated schools in the area are there too. It's the worst because you don't know what to expect. I tore the acl in my left knee at the end of my first Bb test, and still had to finish up randori against 3. I pretty much had to combat roll around to avoid them, and if my timeing was off, i got stomped for my mistake. Anyways, thanks for the flashback down memory lane and congradulations. If you stay humble, a whole world of knowledge will open up to you.

[Hardball]

Jeremy, Thanks for the intelligent dialouge. I am really enjoying this site. The Humble will be exhalted and the concieted will be humbled. I've read a lot of your threads already and appreciate you as some one who knows what he is talking about.

[Jeremy Lobdell]

Thank you

Thank you hardball, i really appreciate that. The down side to military life is moving someplace new every 3-5 years. The upside is that you get a very wide range of experience and the ability to learn from some outstanding ma's all over the world. Good luck in all your endeavors.
Mahalo, Jeremy

[Si Williams]

I've been studying Bushido Ju-jitsu for i think nearly 2 years now, and from reading this forum page has confused me about what that style actually is. i've been told its British ju-jitsu which is apparently different to world jujitsu and different to Japenese jujitsu. But the one i do incorporates striking, throwing, locking, breaks, ground fighting the whole sha-bang. could some one explain if these are actually different styles or simply different names for the same thing.

[Jeremy Lobdell]

Jujitsu styles

Most jujitsu schools are right in line with your training. They are very broad in subject and give there students a very well rounded experience in self defense. It is usually easier to trace the lineage of a particular style through instructors, ie.. yours to his to his ect.., as most names are somewhat generic. Jujitsu was the art of the Samuri, and has spawned many off shouts that have become separate styles themselves over the centuries such as Judo, Aikido, and Brazillian Jujitsu. Most schools attempt to cover all these bases, along with basic striking techniques taken from Okinawan karate. Some will focus more heavily on one than another, ie.. more judo throws than aikido or more ground work, but this varies from system and to system and instructor to instructor. Chinese arts also greatly influenced Japanese Jujitsu as the japanese occupied China. The important thing to remember is that Jujitsu is a living art and is constantly evolving. Also very few styles have a living grandmaster( not just the senior person, but the one who invented the system and utelizes something that is truely unique) Small Circle Jujitsu is the only Jujitsu art I've taken where the origional founder is still alive.
I hope this helps. If you have any other questions, please ask.
Mahalo, Jeremy

[Si Williams]

whats the 'small circle' jujitsu all about? is it worth taking that up rather than continueing with the Bushido Jujitsu?

[Jeremy Lobdell]

Small Circle Jujitsu

I don't know if you would want to switch schools or not, thats up to you. I could give you a huge write up on it, but maybe you should do some research on it yourself and then you can make up your own mind. I would highly recomend training in it to any jujitsuka, but others may feel differently.

Small Circle Jujitsu- created by Professor Wally Jay (black belt magazine hall of fame member) who resides in Alameda, CA. and is in his early 80's.
Wally has retired and has passed the system on to his son, Master Leon Jay who lives in Surrey, England.

This should be enough info to get you started. If you're like me, you'll want to verify everything for yourself, and not just take the word of someone else.
Mahalo, Jeremy

[shinbushi]

On Koryu Jujutsu

A couple of things.
1st Judo invented the dan kyu system. Previous to this Koryu Jujutsu schools used and many still use the Menkyo (license) system. The ranking order is usually Shoden(beginning level) Menkyo, Chudan Menkyo(middle level), Okunden (top or roof level)Menkyo and sometimes an additional Hiden(hidden level) Menkyo. When a student has mastered all the scroll levels he receives a rank called Menkyo Kaiden.

2nd On Jujutsu and striking I take from Koryu.com

Compared with the empty-handed fighting arts of neighboring China and Korea, Japanese jujutsu systems place more emphasis on throwing, immobilizing and/or pinning, joint-locking, and strangling techniques. Atemiwaza (striking techniques) are of secondary importance in most Japanese systems, whereas the Chinese ch'uan-fa (J.: kempo) emphasize punching, striking, and kicking. It is generally felt that the Japanese systems of hakuda, kempo, and shubaku display some degree of Chinese influence in their particular emphasis on atemiwaza, while systems that are derived from a more purely Japanese source do not show any special preference for such techniques, but will use them as and when appropriate.

So the striking came from China directly not Ryukyu (Okinawa)

[Hardball]

Just to add on the above discussion.. Professor Leon Jay comes to Pennsylvania every year and gives a small circle jujitsu seminar. He is really close to Grandmaster George Dillman of the Kempo Pressure point{Dillmans} system. They usually split the day in half with each taking one half to present the material in their seminar.

Budoshin Jujitsu is under the AJA (American Jujitsu Association) and It's current living Grand Master is the Famous George Kirby. He gives a seminar every year at the Arlington Dojo in Arlington Virginia.

[Tom Yum]

Small circle jujitsu and pressure point kempo sounds like a handy combination. Do you train the two regularly or just when the opportunity comes?