Karate or Judo

[Si Williams]

If you've been doing mma for a while then your ground work should be at a strong level, thus taking up Judo wouldn't benifit you that much, as its already been said once you've learnt the basics of ground fighting variations come naturally and individually, you wont get taught i great deal more. I'm personally not a fan of Karate due to much time is spent on stances and stuff - far too nit picky. If your main objective is to improve your self for the sport not for tournaments then i would take up taekwondo, get your kicks to a good standard.

[BadgerFu57]

The Karate/Kickboxing academy does Tae Kwon Do/Chun Kun Do (Chuck Norris' system). So now I am basically choosing between two tae kwon do schools. One is WTF Olympic style competition oriented, the other is more kickboxing oriented. The kickboxing oriented martial arts program also teaches throws.

Once my ankle heals I am going to take trial lessons at both. (16 days left in cast). The nice thing about the WTF school is it is SOOOO close to my house and the schedule is very convenient for me. I am just afraid of getting into a McDojo, the first martial arts school I went to was a Tae Kwon Do McDojo to the max!

So is WTF Full-contact and practical for self-defense?

[EmptyneSs]

dont take tkd. judo is so much better, but hey its ur choice.

[jules]

badger,
Between TKD and Kickboxing i would say kickboxing. This is my philosphy on stand up styles: 3)you need to be allowed to really "spar". 2) you need a low kick. 1) and this is the most important one: YOU NEED TO BE ALLOWED TO PUCH TO THE FACE AND OUR OPPONENT SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO PUNCH YOU IN THE FACE. That's critical. IMHO that's the biggest downfall of most Karate. YOu need that attack rout. You see two nontrained idiots fighting in the street, what do you see? Punches to the face... YOu see rampage vs silva; what do you see? POUNCHES TO THE FACE. It's an instinctive attack route. And the most important thing IMHO is that you need to be able to DEFEND them. Get used to punches being thrown at your face is sooo important. my $0.02

[BadgerFu57]

After much deliberation Jules, I think I concur with you. I might not get 7 ft tall trophies, but I'll have the heartfelt satisfaction of knowing who can really kick butt.

I will probably start in the Kickboxing/Karate places Karate program and move into Kickboxing later. But they are both taught by the same instructor, and so I'm not afraid of learning bad habits or getting bad instruction. He also teaches some basic throws in his program, which I do like. I already know tons of newaza from BJJ, and I know wrestling takedowns, but I am not good with classical throws. I think learning a few would be a nice addition to my martial arts skills.

The martial arts sytem they use is a combination of Tae Kwon Do and Chun Kun Do. Does anyone know anything about Chun Kun Do? I can't find any information anywhere other than it's Chuck Norris' system.

Also, is Mike Dillard a good Karate instructor? The owner of the gym is a 3rd degree under him (as well as a 1st under Chuck Norris, on top of competitive kickboxing experience [which doesn't have belts]).

And to everyone that says go Judo.... later on in life, I might. Just not now.

[Shoot]

Your concern over injuries is healthy. I feel like you do about that. This martial arts gig is largely just for fun for me. I don’t care to have a life long injury for something as academic as martial arts. Do a little research into sports injuries and you’ll find that Judo and TKD have very high injury rates. The vast majority of injuries in Judo come from throws and in TKD from full contact sparring. No matter how well you learn breakfalls the odds are you’ll sustain an injury in Judo. Your ground game should be solid. In BJJ you should learn enough about takedowns without practicing them all the time. Takedowns are dangerous plain and simple. Wrestling is a high injury sport too. And you guessed it, the injuries come mainly from the takedowns. As far as reality goes, takedowns are really pretty simple and don’t need t be practiced full speed all the time to retain them. You can practice shots and sprawls with a dummy to maintain the feeling/muscle memory. Judo throws and timing require much more practice and their upright posture make it debatable as to how practical they are. Nevertheless, Karate contains throws. TKD is a good choice in the sense that it is truly a complete striking art that is simple to learn. TKD uses modern striking and forms so you get some variety in your training. When you become proficient at TKD you can adapt yourself to any type of striking. Muay Thai, kickboxing, boxing, etc.. .should all come naturally after perfecting form and feel with either TKD or karate. My only reservation about TKD goes to its sports side. Sport TKD is very unrealistic and dangerous. So what’s the point in doing it. I’d find a TKD or Karate (if practical application is taught) school that is geared toward self defense and steer clear of TKD sport if you want to avoid injury. A self defense oriented school will keep you from getting a false sense of security in things like high kicks and one punch kills.

[Hardball]

[QUOTE=Shoot] Your signiture line is wrong. James Brown said, "I don't know karate but I know Ka Razor! As in a blade. The song is entitled "The Big Payback". I said this to you in another thread but I'm not sure if you saw it. I'm Old School and that song was a smash hit back in the day.

Nothing personal, just thought you would like to know.

[Shoot]

[QUOTE=Hardball]

Your signiture line is wrong. James Brown said, "I don't know karate but I know Ka Razor! As in a blade. The song is entitled "The Big Payback". I said this to you in another thread but I'm not sure if you saw it. I'm Old School and that song was a smash hit back in the day.

Nothing personal, just thought you would like to know.

The quote is from The Big Payback. I've never heard the "Ka Razor" bit. You may be right. I like "Karazy." Ok, I'm a dork, I spent 1 minute looking this up on the internet. Apparently at least this website agrees with me. Maybe they heard it the way I do. Who knows.

http://www.asklyrics.com/display/James_Brown/The_Payback_LYRICS/96919.htm

[Hardball]

[QUOTE=Shoot] I like "Karazy." Ok, I'm a dork, I spent 1 minute looking this up on the internet.


LMAO...............O.K. man, I won't bother you again. Everything these day's are censored for violence and innappropriate content. I'm guessing that's the internet version. LOL Keep posting!!

[Jeremy Lobdell]

Judo

I would definitely lean twards judo. Judo will give you a great skill set in the transition from stand up to ground. It is much more unnatural to throw someone properly than to strike, and therefore you would have a much greater advantage in a self defense situation. I do feel that knowledge and skill is needed in both and that well rounded skills are essential in self defense. Judo will do well to toughen up your body and get you in great shape for what should be your eventual cross training in a striking style. And in my experience, it is the beginning students that cause injury to experienced ma's due to lack of body control and apprehention over a new technique,as opposed to experienced ma's going to hard on a beginner. Most injuries occure to a uke in judo by the person doing nage waza not commiting to the throw and dumping the uke ackwardly as opposed to fininshing the throw and allowing for a full breakfall.
Which ever path you choose, train hard and keep an open mind!
Mahalo, Jeremy

[BadgerFu57]

I think I am going the Karate route.

The school I will be going to teaches basic throws in their karate curriculum. I already know some basic takedowns and a lot of groundwork from BJJ (which I will continue to practice), so that should be sufficient for grappling. The instructor is a 4 time world champion kickboxer.... so the striking instruction should be excellent, and eventually I could branch out into kickboxing once my ankle is no longer an issue.

Does anyone here know who Mike Dillard is?

[Ollis]

So is WTF Full-contact and practical for self-defense?

WTF style TKD is full contact but face punches are forbidden. You can punch to the body but because the "players" are wearing body armour which makes it difficult to create a staggering blow, points are rarely awarded so few bother to try and score them.

On the plus side, WTF creates some fantasticly powerful kickers, and a lot of the Korean instructors are old school in their approach, but because the Korean government would only endorse the WTF, nearly all the masters over there had to switch their affiliations to them if they wanted any kind of career in MA. I'm not WTF, but I've fought in a couple of their tourneys before, and what a wake up call that was. They might not face punch, but their kicks will knock you on your arse! I got knocked over twice by having my back kick countered by my oponent effortlessly side stepping me & turning kicking me in the head. A friend of mine caught a spinning reverse turning kick which cracked his temple & broke his nose, and that was the first kick thrown in the match!

From what I hear though, in the States the WTF are the main McDojang culprits, which means every time I check out a MA forum all you get is "TKD sux ass!" comments from people who know nothing about the style. My advice is try out the school & see what the instructor is like for yourself. Many TKD schools supplement their syllabus with Hapkido, which will fill in a lot of holes, but you've got to admit, if seeing a 7 year old wearing a black belt doesn't get the alarm bells in your head ringing, nothing will.

[HtTKar]

karate/kickboxing cross will be good for you. I think the kickboxing will make it more of a striking art, than a refinement of the principles.

For sparring there is continious and point. The object of point sparring is to win points. after each point (or 2 or 3 depending on rules) the sparring stops, people return to their corners, and they start again from scratch.

Continious sparring is either light/medium/ or full. All that means is; what percentage of your strength are you going to hit with. Full contact is not 100% of your strength. Just 100% of whats safe to use for practice. The rules are different depending on instructors. Generally when you start out you do not contact your opponent, just get real close. As you get better and better you stike closer and closer. When you're ready, your instructor will have you contact your partner lightly, then medium, and then up to full contact.

When you're just starting sparring you dont go all out. It is for you to get better, and to allow your partner to get better at what they're doing. Your instructor will know when you're ready to spar. Get your equipment as soon as you sign up so you can spar as soon as allowed. + it cost money, this allows you to spread it out a little.

Best of luck on your journey.

[sirmattu]

I will have my blue belt in BJJ shortly which is somewhat equivalent to a black belt in some martial arts systems.

Judo and Jiu-jitsu are like Macaroni and Cheese.... I wouldn't call it branching out. Grappling is grappling, the only difference is the way competitions are scored which puts emphasis on different techniques.

Karate.... yeah, that's branching out.

what the shit.........? ahh yeahhh i like that, a blue belt is ALL MOST NOT equivalent to black belt in another martial art. thats just the bias showing up on this forum for bbj, o and lets not forget mt.