any idiot can pull a trigger? AKA the flame attractor thread.

[warriorpoet]

Guns as martial arts weapon

A firearm as a martial arts weapon? In my opinion no, not in the traditional sense anyway. As a crucial self defense tool to add to your scheme of knowledge, absolutely! I shot IDPA(International Defensive Pistol Association) competition for a while, and let me tell you, it is HARD to master that weapon, equally as hard as using a sword(I was also in the SCA, and have learned to fence fairly well). Yes, any fool can pick up a gun and kill someone with it, but to use it proficiently in a combat environment is a different story. I have taken tactical classes, was a state certified armed security guard, as well as shooting IDPA, and countless hours in the range(1,000s, and 1,000s of rounds, and 2 barrels), all with a pistol I have had for years, and have bult(Springfield Armory 1911-A1, I do custom gunwork also), and I still wouldn't claim to be a "master". Also, every gun is different, essentially the same, but different; just as cars are essentially the same but different. Just because you drove a pinto doesn't mean you can race a lamborghini.

[HtTKar]

sword(I was also in the SCA, and have learned to fence fairly well)

I thought fencing used rapier, epee, foil, and saber; not swords. SCA uses Rapiers.
Is this what you mean by SCA http://www.sca-recovery.org/

I jest. I really am kidding

[warriorpoet]

No skeletons in my closet...

My secret is out! I hang my head in shame. Seriously though, I should have said "european combat swordplay", not fencing, fencing is with foils, not broadswords. Technical foul, I get a time out.

[HtTKar]

My secret is out! I hang my head in shame. Seriously though, I should have said "european combat swordplay", not fencing, fencing is with foils, not broadswords. Technical foul, I get a time out.

ha ha, thats funny.


What do you think of fighting with a broadsword. i ask because it was used during a time of heavy armor. So the sword is heavy enough to crash through armor, bones, etc. Cross bows and such made armor ineffective, so those weapons were no longer effective. They changed to rapiers and then later on to foils. Also the two sword style of Japan thought alot about distancing, hence why they carried two swords. They dispised the idea of a person taking preference for a long sword, and thought that both were needed depending on the distance of the fight. The closer you are to your opponent the more advantageous it is to have a shorter sword. But you cant run into a group of people with a short sword and just hope to jump in.

i have never fought with a broadsword so I am just asking for your opinion out of curiosity. The techniques are way different learning to use a foil is a lot of technique, so is the two-sword. It would seem that a broadsword would be used more in powerfull crashing movements with the purpose to either break through armor, or break the bones on the other side of the armor. I would think that against either a foil, or the two-sword, the broadsword would be ineffective due to weight, and limited range of proper distance. Also have you ever fought with your broadsword against another sword style? Sorry for all the questions. As you can tell i am just really interested in your opinion.

[shuyun]

Philippine rangers are trained to shoot water filled baloons attached to the side of a buddy's knees from 300 feet using live ammo and an antique M-16A1 (I mean these things have seen action since NAM as they were mostly American GI hand me downs).

And if you've seen Cowboy Bebop (I know i know it's a friggin cartoon) Spike with his Jericho 9mm. and his opponent with a katana fought in what was agreed to be equal terms. Both were simply weapons of choice. Of course you'd have to be a darn good swordsman for something like that but yeah it's a weapon, a martial arts weapon. Besides the adjective "Martial" refers to anything combative anyway. Taken from Mars the Roman god of war.

[MatthewAlphonso]

Pardon this, but I am a bit of an authenticity nazi and all the myths about armour propagated by hollywood annoy me

What do you think of fighting with a broadsword. i ask because it was used during a time of heavy armor. So the sword is heavy enough to crash through armor, bones, etc. Cross bows and such made armor ineffective, so those weapons were no longer effective.

Not true, testing has shown that armour is quite strong enough to withstand quite a beating from weapons, usually newer weapons were devised to penetrate the armour, ie: your sword can't get through maille, use a stilletto, nice and thin to stab through the rings and padding beneath. After that, new armour was devised the defend against the new weapon. For example, out people are tired of being stabbed, my friend over there just discovered that boiling leather makes it a hell of a lot harder, lets put some iron/steel plates over the vital bits and wear it. Oh, and it wasn't the bow or crossbow that made armour innefective (once again, a myth out of hollywood, otherwise the battle sequences wouldn't be half as exciting) it was, in fact, the gonne. it caused armour to be thicker to be "Bullet Proofed" eventually as gonnes got stronger, and armour got thicker, armour became a nuisance and too heavy, so it was no longer worn.

[QUOTE}They changed to rapiers and then later on to foils. Also the two sword style of Japan thought alot about distancing, hence why they carried two swords. They dispised the idea of a person taking preference for a long sword, and thought that both were needed depending on the distance of the fight. The closer you are to your opponent the more advantageous it is to have a shorter sword. But you cant run into a group of people with a short sword and just hope to jump in.[/QUOTE]

There are no, I repeat NO, findings of rapiers of the battle field. well actually there is one, the American civil war, every idiot that decided to forgo the sabre in order to carry a rapier got slaughtered, there is no way that a rapier can defend against, or stand against, a sabre. And to my knowledge the samurai carried a Wakizachi in case they went indoors, it would be very hard to swing a full katana inside, and propriety would keep them from bringing one inside the house of a nobleman. Distancing didn't have much to do with it until Musashi's time.

i have never fought with a broadsword so I am just asking for your opinion out of curiosity. The techniques are way different learning to use a foil is a lot of technique, so is the two-sword. It would seem that a broadsword would be used more in powerfull crashing movements with the purpose to either break through armor, or break the bones on the other side of the armor. I would think that against either a foil, or the two-sword, the broadsword would be ineffective due to weight, and limited range of proper distance. Also have you ever fought with your broadsword against another sword style? Sorry for all the questions. As you can tell i am just really interested in your opinion.

I have not really fought with a rapier but a broadsword is also a lot of technique. It is not just crashing movements, but it is intended to kill, very little beauty involved, because it's business was death, and as the broadsword was used, in one form or another, all the way from the time of the Roman Empire (Gladius Espanienses I believe was the name) to the battle of Killecrankie (mid 1700's) it obviously had a quite a good business going on. if the battle came between a rapier and a broadsword the broadsword would win because it would be impossible for the rapier fighter to parry or block a broadsword (a matter of the advantage that comes from weight) and the broadsowrd fighter would quite easily be able to block a rapier. you must also take into account that the rapier was a gentleman's weapon and as such he would be less prone to strike his opponent eather in the beans or face if the oppurtunity came up. the Knight on the other hand would have no such difficulty.

I have fought against a florentine (2 swords) got my ass handed to me, I was also new at the time (to date I have mebbe 5 hours of fighting time, still new) and I have also fought against katana, also got my ass handed to me. (still new)