koans

[fanman.]

Traditionally koans are given from one person to another (teacher to student) to figure it out. Once they think they have the answer they tell the teacher. the teacher then decides whether or not the student has truly figured it out.
But what if you don't have someone to tell you when you have figured it out? When you think you have the answer, how do you know if it's right?

[Kimpatsu]

If you don't have a sensei, who gave you the koan in the first place?

[fanman.]

I see em all the time in books n stuff

[Kimpatsu]

I see em all the time in books n stuff

Then write to the author of the book, or its editor, for the answer. In this case, the people behind the book are your sensei.

[masterdan]

Zen Koans cannot be logically proven. Koan's were created to make the student think and broaden his/her mind. You can make some sort of answer for some of the koans, but like I said, they aren't meant to be logically answered.

[Kimpatsu]

Zen Koans cannot be logically proven. Koan's were created to make the student think and broaden his/her mind. You can make some sort of answer for some of the koans, but like I said, they aren't meant to be logically answered.

There I disagree. If I can find logical solutions to koan, they definitely can be logically answered--even if that was not the questioner's intent.

[masterdan]

That's what I said..."You can make some sort of answer for some koans, but they aren't meant to be answered." I have a huge book with oodles of koans in it, they just make you think.

[Kimpatsu]

That's what I said..."You can make some sort of answer for some koans, but they aren't meant to be answered." I have a huge book with oodles of koans in it, they just make you think.

Koans have no point if there is no solution, and I don't mean a surrealist one such as "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?"
Answer: "Fish!"
Something can only make you think if it stretches your faculties for reasoning.

[masterdan]

You're missing the point. Koans are NOT meant to be answered. They are questions to make the student stretch his/her mind.

[shirase]

koans are also meant to cause the students to concentrate hard to solve the koan, as it is said that enlightenment often occurs after getting past a difficult mental blockage. If you are really interested in koans then look for the book "the gateless gate" its a collection of koans and stories that was made by a zen master a while back. If you can then try to get one with a commentary by a zen priest or monk. I got one with a commentary by some famous priest who lives in japan. It really helped me understand how koans work a bit more. However Im pretty sure im not enlightened so thers a big chance what i think about koans is wrong

[joedoe]

From what I understand, koans are supposed to force you to consider something and come to a realisation. It is the side-effect of the koan that is important, not the solution. The koan is just a tool to force you to think.