Bujinkan = Ninjutsu?

[HtTKar]

I don't know who he trained under, but he's a 13th Dan

Really????
How many Dan rankings are there in Bujinkan?

[jcmack]

Mark Hodel is a great person to train with. He has been at it for a long time. I believe he is one of the first five or so Americans to train with Sensei.

[Hikage]

15.

-Hikage

[jcmack]

Now that I think about it, he was the fifth American to recieve a Godan rank from Sensei, not to train with him. Thank you Hikage.

[Hikage]

Hatsumi added an additional 5 dans a number of years ago. It is my understanding that he felt those who had reached the 10th dan level were good, but just needed more definition between the ranks and because the 10th dans still had much to learn. He himself added the 5 and named himself 15th.

-Hikage

[HtTKar]

That's kind of crazy. I mean with that many different DANs, it doesnt seem like youd need to know that much to become a blackbelt. Afterall you'd have 14 more levels to go. It seems kind of extravegant to me. But to each their own I guess. I wonder if after adding an additional 5 Dans, if becoming a blackbelt got that much easier.

[jcmack]

This is also how it was explained to me. The requirements for shodan are still the same, though it of course varies slightly among the various sensei. However the additional ranks beyond 10th dan are used to differentiate different levels of shihan. However, this is only what I have heard in casual conversation from other higher level practitioners. I'm not sure if it is accurate or not.

[SeekingThePath]

Which brings up another question. What exactly is To-shin-do consist of, if it's not entirely bujinkan. And what does that make rick tew?
Genbukan, don't have a whole lot of info on them either...

I know this thread is a few weeks old but since no one answered your question about To Shin Do, I'll do it. I studied at a Stephen Hayes Quest center for 2 years, until I moved to a new city this past January. I'm now studying at a dojo run by a 15th Dan Shihan under Grandmaster Hatsumi. To Shin Do is basically the same as Bujinkan but with an updated philosophy to deal with modern types of combat. Having studied both To-Shin-Do and now Bujinkan, I enjoy both and would not say one is better than the other. However, Bujinkan is definitely more traditional in the teachings.

This is taken from Stephen Haye's website:

"Why does Stephen K. Hayes refer to To-Shin Do when he is most famous as the original American pioneer in the art of ninjutsu?"

By the late 1980s, Stephen K. Hayes and Masaaki Hatsumi both felt that the art of Japan’s ninja was so misunderstood that the words "ninjutsu" or "ninja" prevented many people from considering training in our schools. Perhaps due to misrepresentation in movies and media, the image of Japan’s authentic ninja had become so tarnished that it seemed time to bring in a new wave of understanding for the 21st Century.

The ninja arts have been misunderstood throughout Japan's history. In the 1800s, grandmaster Toshitsugu Takamatsu avoided awkward attention by referring to his ninja arts as happo-biken.

In the 1900s, Masaaki Hatsumi came to call his practice budo taijutsu, and avoided teaching the specifics of ninjutsu publicly.

Taking the tradition into the first century of the 2000s, Stephen K. Hayes refers to his practice as To-Shin Do, of which he and his wife Rumiko are An-shu "directors" of the Kasumi-An

Behind the martial techniques that Stephen K. Hayes and Masaaki Hatsumi teach is the depth heritage of the original Togakure ninja invisible warriors. SKH Quest students are invited to study the original ways of the Togakure ninja along with training in the highly practical physical, mental, and strategic skills of modern To-Shin Do.

"Is Stephen K. Hayes still a student of Masaaki Hatsumi?"

Yes, most certainly. Stephen K. Hayes remains the longest-training American student of Masaaki Hatsumi to this day. At a special ceremony, Dr. Hatsumi awarded Mr. Hayes the very rare ju-dan 10th Degree to acknowledge An-shu’s lifelong work in promoting the martial arts as a path to mastery of life

Hope that helps to answer your question and good luck in your training!

[m.artist]

I know this thread is a few weeks old but since no one answered your question about To Shin Do, I'll do it. I studied at a Stephen Hayes Quest center for 2 years, until I moved to a new city this past January. I'm now studying at a dojo run by a 15th Dan Shihan under Grandmaster Hatsumi. To Shin Do is basically the same as Bujinkan but with an updated philosophy to deal with modern types of combat. Having studied both To-Shin-Do and now Bujinkan, I enjoy both and would not say one is better than the other. However, Bujinkan is definitely more traditional in the teachings.

This is taken from Stephen Haye's website:

"Why does Stephen K. Hayes refer to To-Shin Do when he is most famous as the original American pioneer in the art of ninjutsu?"

By the late 1980s, Stephen K. Hayes and Masaaki Hatsumi both felt that the art of Japan’s ninja was so misunderstood that the words "ninjutsu" or "ninja" prevented many people from considering training in our schools. Perhaps due to misrepresentation in movies and media, the image of Japan’s authentic ninja had become so tarnished that it seemed time to bring in a new wave of understanding for the 21st Century.

The ninja arts have been misunderstood throughout Japan's history. In the 1800s, grandmaster Toshitsugu Takamatsu avoided awkward attention by referring to his ninja arts as happo-biken.

In the 1900s, Masaaki Hatsumi came to call his practice budo taijutsu, and avoided teaching the specifics of ninjutsu publicly.

Taking the tradition into the first century of the 2000s, Stephen K. Hayes refers to his practice as To-Shin Do, of which he and his wife Rumiko are An-shu "directors" of the Kasumi-An

Behind the martial techniques that Stephen K. Hayes and Masaaki Hatsumi teach is the depth heritage of the original Togakure ninja invisible warriors. SKH Quest students are invited to study the original ways of the Togakure ninja along with training in the highly practical physical, mental, and strategic skills of modern To-Shin Do.

"Is Stephen K. Hayes still a student of Masaaki Hatsumi?"

Yes, most certainly. Stephen K. Hayes remains the longest-training American student of Masaaki Hatsumi to this day. At a special ceremony, Dr. Hatsumi awarded Mr. Hayes the very rare ju-dan 10th Degree to acknowledge An-shu’s lifelong work in promoting the martial arts as a path to mastery of life

Hope that helps to answer your question and good luck in your training!

Wow that is impressive. I too was wondering why they name change if Stepehn Hayes was such a famous ninjutsu'ist.
Thx for the info.