Point Fighting is Gay

[Garland]

Come on people, complaining about these rules and calling the sport gay is like calling Amerrican Football gay because they stop everytime the ball hits the ground and the footballers are totally packed in safety equipment
BS of coarse, they are sports, with their own rules, you either like them or you don't and if you don't, that doesn't make them gay or something

In rings and Pancrase you can make a couple of rope escapes, would you or wouldn't you make use of them and do you think someone that does use this rule to his advantage, is gay?

I wouldn't call it "gay"...I would call it chickenshit. And yes...american football, compared to rugby, is pretty damn lame.

[Dan Anderson]

Hey Mad,

Quick question: What era are you talking about? Current day point fighting? All point fighting since it began in the US? This is an interesting thread as I can agree with you on one point and that is if one thinks that point fighting is the end all, you're in for a severe reality break when you get into a real mix up.

There have been a number of point fighters, however, who have been the real deal. To dismiss fighters like Mike Stone, Allan Steen, Ralph Castellanos, Steve Sanders, Howard Jackson, Joe Lewis, and a host of others I can name would be rash. So, what era are you talking about?

Yours,
Dan Anderson

[Mad_Mally]

The era that I'm talking about is when Karate moved from okinawa to Japan. A lot of the training was sapped so that it could be taught in schools. This is how the weaking of Karate began, however there was still some hard core fighting going on like knockdown tournments, and stuff. However after WW II when Karate was brought from Japan to America competitions were no contact or light contact events were a panel of judges woudl determine which fighter would have landed a blow (this was during the 50's and 60's). The point fighting system we have today grew out of this tradition.

[Dan Anderson]

The era that I'm talking about is when Karate moved from okinawa to Japan. A lot of the training was sapped so that it could be taught in schools. This is how the weaking of Karate began, however there was still some hard core fighting going on like knockdown tournments, and stuff. However after WW II when Karate was brought from Japan to America competitions were no contact or light contact events were a panel of judges woudl determine which fighter would have landed a blow (this was during the 50's and 60's). The point fighting system we have today grew out of this tradition.

Check your history. There wasn't kumite until Gigo Funakoshi began working on it in Japan roughly around the 1930's. Also, if you are looking at the trianing being sapped by putting it into the public school system, that was in Okinawa in the early 1900's. Ankoh Itosu created the Pinan kata so that tehy could be taught to kids. This was Okinawa, not Japan. The kumite in Japan, when it was first formulated, was quite rugged. Look into Harry Cook's Shotokan Karate - A Precise History for a good description of early kumite and how bloody it was.

Karate tournaments began in Japan in 1957 or 1958. There the point system was introduced, not in the USA. Yes, the point fighting system grew out of that tradition and has undergone many changes since its inception.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

[Garland]

Ah...Ginchin Funakoshi....but his best student was the one who introduced a real hard-core art. I can't even nay-say true kyokushin guys, seeing as how they take a cross-training approach to their art. (some of their guys can even compete on a level with good thai guys out of Thailand?!! for real, they have some guts and some real quality there) Mas Oyama was da muthafuckin' man.

[Toudiyama[NL]]

Ah...Ginchin Funakoshi....but his best student was the one who introduced a real hard-core art. I can't even nay-say true kyokushin guys, seeing as how they take a cross-training approach to their art. (some of their guys can even compete on a level with good thai guys out of Thailand?!! for real, they have some guts and some real quality there) Mas Oyama was da muthafuckin' man.

Mas wasn't a student of Gichin, his 2 best students were Konishi and Ohtsuka
Mas studied with Giko( or Gigo) the son of Gichin and didn't like it that much
If someone fucked up Karate, it is the son of Gichin

[Garland]

Mas wasn't a student of Gichin, his 2 best students were Konishi and Ohtsuka
Mas studied with Giko( or Gigo) the son of Gichin and didn't like it that much
If someone fucked up Karate, it is the son of Gichin

I take it you don't like Mas Oyama?

[Toudiyama[NL]]

I take it you don't like Mas Oyama?

Nope,I don't like Gigo, giko or whatever his name was nor do I like presentday Shit'o'kan ehh Shotokan

Nothing wrong with Masutatsu Oyama ( although I like the offshoots of Kyokushin more)
My first book on Karate was a book by Jon Blumming together with Kurosaki

[Mad_Mally]

uhhhh!

Check your history. There wasn't kumite until Gigo Funakoshi began working on it in Japan roughly around the 1930's. Also, if you are looking at the trianing being sapped by putting it into the public school system, that was in Okinawa in the early 1900's. Ankoh Itosu created the Pinan kata so that tehy could be taught to kids. This was Okinawa, not Japan. The kumite in Japan, when it was first formulated, was quite rugged. Look into Harry Cook's Shotokan Karate - A Precise History for a good description of early kumite and how bloody it was.

Karate tournaments began in Japan in 1957 or 1958. There the point system was introduced, not in the USA. Yes, the point fighting system grew out of that tradition and has undergone many changes since its inception.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

I don't need to check my history because I'm not talking about Kumite I'm talking about point fighting. And I know point fighting didn't start in the U.S it just evolved into the system we have today. Lastly point fighting in japan was different then the system we have today, one difference is they didn't use equipment, at lest not initially.

[Mad_Mally]

I agree Mas Oyama was the man. My instructor saw his son at a knockdown tournment, many years ago. He said he knocked a guy out in the opening second of a match by fliping foward into a hand stand and catching this guy in the top of his head with the flat of his right foot as he came down.

Did you also know that MAs Oyama was a friend and instructer of Peter Urban the founder of U.S.A Goju?

There is a good picture of Urban and Mas Oyama in the "Karate Dojo" by Peter Urban.

[DAT]

Point fighting IS gay, not that there is anything wrong with that!

[lrbrugby]

Point fighting IS gay, not that there is anything wrong with that!

you say it is gay! do they pull each others trousers down and start making bum love???? i dont think so i think you should grow up and take it for what it is! i do points fighting and full contact, and feel each is suited better for what it is! I like the comparison with rugby and american football as a rugby player i feel it is a bit silly wearing all the padding and helmets and stoppages! and so on and so forth but i dont criticise american football i accept it for what it is!. To get to the point, points fighting is good for what it is suited for but i do agree with you in the aspect that full contact sports teach you to take hits better and personally i enjoy them more. Saying that however does not mean that i agree that a sport is "gay"???

[little bad boy]

well... that's why it's called point fighting i guess... coz you fight just to earn points. i guess everybody doesn't join a tournamnet or competition to get killed silly. it's all in proper mind setting in training i guess. like, if you intend to join lots of point fighting competitions, then train like a point fighter. if you want to be more of a streetfighter or just want it for real life self-defense with no intention to join competitions, then train like one. if you want to be good at both, then train for both. simple, ayt? no big deal.

[newbie2MA]

you know you make me not want to even study...

seriously. now I *get* how it is dumb to think you are a hardass because you score a ton of points in point fighting and make stupid remarks to someone you don't know a think about and think your "points" mean anything in the real world. really. i get that.

but why does training in any art have to be about how or how many asses you can kick, how hard a punch you can take, or how you beat someone so badly the polce were called.

it is why i backed out of the bjj school I visited. i'm not interested in MA to dominate, kill, break bones, humiliate, destroy. i'd like to push my physical capablities as far as they can go, test myself, and have confidence if I do get into a fight I can handle myself well enough to deter the other person.

but I don't get calling people who fight for points 'gay'. in fact in your story what i do find 'gay' (your word not mine) is that the guy would even harass you; let's say he was the world's most dangerous fighter'; it was *still* 'gay'; he should have respected that you were training your body like he does and given you a thumbs up. i find his behaviour as much of a turn off to getting into MA as your post. all that said, again, I get why you get offended by the behavious and *then* his background.

[Mad_Mally]

Uhhh!

First of all I didn't call point fighters gay, I called the whole idea of point fighting gay. If you want to call flailing and hopping on your rear leg fighting then go ahead. Point fighters that call themselves hard need a reality check.

As far as a fellow martial artist giving me the "thumbs up" it rarely happens. Most martial artist have huge egos and are quick to get into a pissing match with you if they find out you take martial arts. I personally think it has to do with their low self-esteem; they feel the only way that they can feel good about themselves is trying to kick your ass in a fight (in the dojo its sparring).

The guy that started the fight with me is some asshole from the neighborhood that thinks he's hard; I proved him wrong. He spends his time hanging out on the corner and harasses people he doesn't like. Anyway, I digress, my point is that this guy (a point fighter) thought that he could use his "skills" to intimidate others, he was wrong.

In conclusion, point fighting as a sport is gay, it doesn't speak to a person's abiltiy to defend himself nor is it a proper gauge of a person's techique. I will talk more about this in a later post.

POINT FIGHTING WILL GET YOU KILLED IN THE STREET.