Ashida Kim article has been released!

[Andrew WA]

From www.bullshido.com

Local Winter Haven Man Leads Way In Selling Mail Order Black Belt Certificates.

originally published at Bullshido.net
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/edi... post&p=701683

Chad Sloman had heard the rumours before. For years in the martial arts community there have been whispers. "Want to impress some guilible potential students with your martial arts skills, but don't have the actual background? Pay a fee to join a martial arts hall of fame or buy a black belt ranking which you can hang on your wall to impress little Johnny and his soccer mom." In March a friend told Chad about The Dojo, and Dojo Press, a site offering to rank to all those who passed certain qualifications. operating out of P.O. Box 209, Lake Alfred, Florida.

"Certification, suitable for framing, in your chosen system of fighting arts can be awarded upon presentation of previous credentials at Yudansha/Black Belt Level or above. Prior certification or documentation eliminates the video testing requirement. Qualified Military Hand-to-Hand Combat or Self-Defense Experts are eligible for this Certificate. No additional training required. Get credit for what you already know.” http://dojopress.com/catalogms2.html
But wait! One also receives

"DOJO ID Card and 8 1/2 x 11 Certificate of Rank and Membership in The DOJO-Academy of Martial Arts, a subsidiary of BLACK BELT INTERNATIONAL the parent company and Representative Commission for dozens of styles and martial arts clubs worldwide. Video Testing is available as part of the Fee, and will be evaluated by recognized instructors and sanctioned in whatever school or freestyle method is designated by the applicant."

An investigation by members of Bullshido.net, a website devoted to discussing and investigating questionable behavior in the martial arts has uncovered the following. By a minimum of clear and convincing evidence we have discovered that the man running this site, is named Radford W. Davis, and he has been using the pseudonyms of both Ashida Kim and Chris Hunter since at least 1980. Starting in 1980 Davis has published approximately a dozen Ninja related books (1) achieved greater circulation then the publications of legitimate Ninjutsu masters like Masaaki Hatsumi and Stephen Hayes who traveled to Japan to study with Hatsumi. Davis, whose "ninja" alias incorrectly mixes a Japanese first name with a Korean last name, has been operating his enterprise out of its current Lake Alfred Florida post office box for well over a decade. (2)

Though Ninjutsu was first widely seen in America in the 1967 James Bond move 'You Only Live Twice' it really emerged in the American public consciousness starting in 1980 when ninjas and Ninjutsu were shown to the American public in the Miniseries 'Shogun', and the Chuck Norris vehicle 'The Octagon'. By the time the 1981 Cannon Group's movie 'Enter the Ninja', was in release, the martial arts community had descended into the Ninja craze. (3)

This trend fueled the rise a number of uncredentialed teachers of which Davis has been perhaps the most successful. Davis is also known in martial arts circles for using without permission the name of the Black Dragon Society which was originally founded by the late John Keehan of Chicago, Illinois. Needless to say, when Davis republished Keehan's book which was written under the name of Count Dante, he did so without permission.

"These certificates are dangerous because their graphics appear professionally done and so they look official," says Neal Fletcher who runs Bullshido.net, a martial arts website which devotes itself to discussing martial arts fraud and misbehavior. "If I stuck one of these up on the wall of a martial arts school, ("Dojo" in Japanese) I could easily convince most people I was certified to train them and take their money for doing so because I possessed legitimate rank in the art specified on the certificate. In actuality I would be a complete fraud, putting them at risk if they ever did need to use their self defense skills in a dangerous situation. It's easy for an average person to get taken in when they see a man in a martial arts uniform with a decorated black belt. It's the 'karate kid' effect: people want to assume martial arts teachers are inherently reputable and trustworthy because that's how they're generally represented in popular culture. But in reality there aren't any genuine standards or regulation of the industry, leaving it open to all sorts of fraud."

So the question became, would Davis/Hunter/Kim sell a black belt certificate to anyone, or did he actually screen applicants and require a video tape or proof of rank as he claimed to do. Sloman, a member of Bullshido decided to find out.

On March 21, 2005 Chad Sloman sent Ashida Kim (aka Hunter aka Davis) the following e-mail at http://dojopress.com/catalogms2.html "Please send me a black belt certificate in "Vale Tudo". My experience: 7th kyu Yoshukai Karate (World Yoshukai Karate Kobudo Organization); 1.5 years (untested) Atarashii Naginata (Scouthern California Naginata Federation); 5th kyu Aikido (Aikido Schools of Ueshiba); 7th kyu Judo (United States Judo Association)"

Now for anyone who knows the first thing about Japanese Martial Arts, which a supposed Ninja master would, 7th and 5th kyu are extremely low, pre-black belt ranks. In many systems there are 10th kyu before one reaches Black Belt, with 10 kyu signifying the white belt and 1st kyu indicating the person is a Brown belt and close to testing for their Black Belt. So no matter how one sliced it, Chad was no more the half the way to a legitimate black belt and had less then half the time needed to be awarded a black belt in most legitimate martial arts. (typically 4 years on a part time training schedule.)

The other kicker was what Chad was asking for. Vale Tudo, "anything goes" in Portuguese, is a no-holds barred (mostly) grappling competition commonly found in Brazil. Black Belts are not awarded to people competing in this full contact competition any more then they are awarded in American boxing or wrestling. Anyone with a serious background in martial arts, or even a history of reading martial arts magazines would spot this problem. Ashida is not a soccer dad, or martial arts newbie, even as a faux Ninja master he would be aware of this information. (4)

Ashida's reaction? He didn't ask Chad for more details, even though Chad never presented Black Belt Level credentials from another art as required by Kim's sale page on his website. Davis/Kim/Hunter also didn't inquire about the obvious problems in Chad's story. Instead several weeks after payment of $55 was made via paypal, Chad received the following certificates by federal express, one of which memorialized that he was a Black Belt in "Vale Tudo". A copy of this certificate is attached to this press release, notice the sharp graphics, one would have to know something about the martial arts to know it's actually not worth the paper it's printed on.

[Andrew WA]

the other half of the article

here is the other half of the article:

On May 26, 2005 days after Chad purchased this black belt certificate, another Bullshido member wrote Ashida :

"Hi Ashida,

Further to our previous chats. It is now public knowledge that we arranged for a less than qualified MAist to purchase a blackbelt grade off you to test your claim that you check applications.

The bullshido thread is: http://www.bullshido.net/forums/sho...d.php?t=24467

Do you have anything you want to say to this?"

Ashida's reply in full:

"From :
Sent : 26 May 2005 21:28:33
To : armchair_strategist@ hotmail.com
Subject : Re: You selling blackbelt grades without checks

You lot have been THREATENING me with an "expose" for years. Talk is cheap and that's all you want, attention in the form of a reply. Problem is, your facts are all wrong. No matter how many times I prove you to be liars and fools, you just come back for more. I don't care what you children waste your time on at Bullshido. Not one of you is worthy to kiss my foot.
?I remain,
Ashida Kim"

Since Davis/Hunter/Kim was made aware of this sting, he has made multiple arguments or excuses that can be found on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ashida_Kim/archive1

These include: that 1) Chad has no right to complain of fraud because he received his certificates as paid for. 2) Chad Sloman falsely claimed that he had prior BJJ/MMA/Vale Tudo experience, 3) that the certificate only described Chad as an expert in Vale Tudo, not a black belt, 4) that these were only honorary certificates, 5) Sloman was required to fill out a form in the material that was sent to him providing proof of his prior experience or a tape showing him perform his martial arts skills, after the sale, which he did not do, 6) that since a no hold barred fighter has published a book through Dojo Press, Ashida has the ability to rank people in Vale Tudo.

Dealing with these arguments in order, 1) Chad and Bullshido were under no illusions about Mr. Davis before we ordered his certificates. The deceived would not be the party ordering the certificates but the students of this buyer whom would be recruited with a false claim “documented” by this certificate. Therefore Ashida’s response here is irrelevant. 2) Chad did not deceive “Ashida Kim” into believing he was more skilled then he actually was. On one of the two certificates labeled “Black Belt Certificate” Chad’s prior non-black belt experience is explicitly mentioned and he is still granted the rank of “Expert”. So Davis has no claim that Sloman did not tell him what his martial arts experience was before both certificates were issued.

3) There were two certificates issued. One was entitled “Black Belt Certificate” and awards Chad the rank of “Expert” The other is a “Certificate of Rank and Membership” inducting Mr. Sloman into the Dojo Martial Arts Academy at the rank of “Black Belt 1st Degree in the Martial Art, Style, or System of the Vale Tudo”. The second officially calls Chad a first degree black belt and the first an expert in Vale Tudo. While the second certificate would be more useful for fooling soccer moms, the term “expert” in the first certificate is synonymous with the term Black Belt. 4) The term “honorary” did not appear on either certificate so these were not sold as honorary certificates and could be used to dupe the unwary. 5) The only form shipped to Sloman after the fact to be filled out was an Black Dragon Fighting Society Dojo Application. Since Chad was not attempting to start his own BDFS affiliate he did not have to provide any post sale information as Kim/Davis alleges. More importantly the language of the page under which Mr. Sloman bought the certificate indicates such proof was supposed to be provided before the rank was issued. See http://dojopress.com/catalogms2.html 6) Finally, regardless of Mr. Davis’s assertion that he was competent to hand out rank in Vale Tudo because of a fighter who had written a book for him, this NHB figher never signed Chad’s certificates or reviewed any video tape of him because none was ever provided. Mr. Sloman would be willing to sign a sworn affidavit attesting to the facts outlined here and in his post on the wikipedia thread under the heading “The Facts Regarding the Vale Tudo Black Belt”. When Samuel Browning challenged “Ashida Kim” to sign his own affidavit under his real name, supporting his own version of the facts, Kim/Davis did not even address Mr. Browning’s challenge.

Contrary to Ashida Kim's assertions, our facts are reliable and we have a Black Belt certificate that was bought from him simply for money and displays his signature. It is unknown how many of these certificates Kim/Hunter has sold, how many have been used to open schools, and how many have been used to acquire slightly less 'shady' rank. (5) But this is a defective product widely available through the internet and it may be decades before we fully know how many of these certificates are out there being used to con people. Neal Fletcher observes: "Ultimately this is only one belt factory, there are other places we've heard of second hand where one can also get a black belt, in this industry it's really buyer beware."

1) "Christopher Hunter" published "The Book of the Ninja" in 1980. There is some confusion about when Davis published "Secrets of the Ninja" under the name Ashida Kim because the text itself provides a date of 1980 though it was not copyrighted until 1981. "Secrets" is now available via pdf at Davis's/Hunter's/Kim's website. The majority of the techiques contained within involve meditation and sneaking around, with little or no specific hand to hand combat techniques that are actually used by Ninjutsu. This is not particularly surprising since to provide such information Davis/Hunter/Kim would have actually had to have studied this art.

A review of Library of Congress online holdings at http://catalog.loc.gov/ reveals that they have 15 separate titles on Ninjutsu published either by Chris Hunter or Ashida Kim between 1980 and 1999, though some appear to be the same books published under different titles and publishers. The pictures in these books indicate "Kim" and "Hunter" share the same general size, posture, and even items of clothing. Since Ashida has previously said he has posed unmasked in his books, as has Hunter, who follows him around like a Siamese twin, it appears they are one and the same.

On http://www.ashidakim.com/proof.html Ashida Kim boasts of sneaking into a Stephen Hayes seminar in Sarasota Motor in Sarasota Florida on either February 11 or 12th 1984. Kim would later write Mr. Hayes that he had attended the seminar. On the above link he has a picture of the letter he sent to Hayes. The signature reads “Chris Hunter”.

2) Radford W. Davis's real name was established the following way.

A search of book copyright information revealed that a Radford Davis held the copyright on a videotape published by Dojo Press. The names Ashida Kim and Christopher Hunter were both psuedonyms, and that the latter was the psuedonym of one Radford W. Davis who was born in 1948.
A search of copyrights in US (books).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Registration Number: PAu-1-237-121
Title: Dojo Press--Ninjitsu collection/series.
Description: videocassette.
Note: Cataloged from appl.
Claimant: Radford W. Davis
Created: 1989

Registered: 12Apr89

Author on © Application: Radford William Davis (author of pseudonymous contribution)
Miscellaneous: C.O. corres.
Special Codes: 4/X/D

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. Registration Number: TXu-286-033
Title: Advanced survival skills.
Description: 193 p.
Claimant: Radford William Davis
Created: 1987

Registered: 11Jun87

Title on © Application: Green Swamp Survival School training manual.
Author on © Application: entire text: Radford W. Davis, pseud.: Chris Hunter.
Special Codes: 1/B///A
Cross Reference: acChris Hunter , pseud. SEE Radford William Davis , 1948-.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3. Registration Number: TXu-325-302
Title: The Invisible fist / by Christopher Hunter [pseud. of] Radford W. Davis.
Description: 217 p.
Claimant: Radford W. Davis
Created: 1988

Registered: 14Mar88

Special Codes: 1/B/D//A Cross Reference: acChristopher Hunter , pseud. SEE Radford William Davis , 1948-.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4. Registration Number: TXu-334-930
Title: So you want to be a stuntman / Christopher Hunter.
Description: 1 v.
Claimant: Radford William Davis
Created: 1988

Registered: 9Aug88

Author on © Application: Radford William Davis, pseud.
Special Codes: 1/B/D//A

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5. Registration Number: TXu-337-363
Title: 101 sucker punches.
Description: 83 p.
Claimant: Radford W. Davis
Created: 1988

Registered: 9Aug88

Author on © Application: Radford William Davis.
Special Codes: 1/B///A
____________________ ____________________ __________

On 6-9-2005, Samuel Browning talked to Sheila Conroy of Paladin Press. She is the wife of Peder Lund who owns Paladin. She confirmed that Chris Hunter and Ashida Kim was the same person and that when they were carrying his books they sent his royalty checks to the P.O. Box in Lake Alfred used by Ashida's website. The checks were sent in the name of Radford Davis.

"Kick Catcher" a Bullshido member used a search engine called ZABA http://www.zabasearch.com/ to verify names/addresses etc for free. There were three men named Radford Davis in Florida.

1a. RADFORD DAVIS, 2021 11TH AVE FORT LAUDERDALE FL
1b. RADFORD W DAVIS, born Sep 1925, 1010 AVENUE W NW WINTER HAVEN FL (863) 293-6975
1c. RADFORD W DAVIS, born Jul 1948, 1010 AVENUE W NW WINTER HAVEN FL (863) 293-6975

Both 1b & 1c are good matches, but 1c was approximately the same age as the man listed in the copyright information provided above.

Lake Alfred is less the 10 miles from Winter Haven Florida.

There was no trace in the entire United States for the name Ashida Kim. Assuming that the this search engine has a high % content integrity, at least for legit people, then this suggests that Ashida Kim is an alias.

3. Christopher Hunter
There are 78 in Florida.
Three were born in September 1948:
3a. CHRISTOPHER K HUNTER, Sep 1948, 5071 DUNDEE AVE DE LEON SPRINGS FL (386) 985-6696
3b. CHRISTOPHER K HUNTER, Sep 1948
3c. CHRISTOPHER K HUNTER, Sep 1948, 4799 HARMONY WOODS TRL DE LEON SPRINGS FL

These are probably the same person who moved from address to address.
There are a few other Christopher K Hunters but either too young or without birth dates recorded. One Christopher Hunter lives near Radford W. Davis:
3d. CHRISTOPHER HUNTER, 4900 CYPRESS GARDENS RD WINTER HAVEN FL

We checked through "Chris Hunter" also. 55 in Florida. None with 1948 birth years mentioned nor same address or phone# as Davis (1c).

Ashida Kim's website is hosted by Powerweb out of California and is listed to Mark Miller, 1010 Ave W NW, Winter Haven, FL, with a phone number of 863-409-4910 It's the same address as Radford Davis's but with a different name (probably an alias) and a different phone number. Another computer search reveals (863) 293-6975 (Radford W Davis' above) comes back registered to George W Davis - (863) 293-6975 - 1010 Avenue W NW, Winter Haven, FL 33881. If we are wrong and Mr. Radford W. Davis is just another pseudonym, then the most likely alternates are Mark Miller, or George W. Davis which trace back to 1010 Avenue W NW, Winter Haven, FL 33881. We believe however that George W.Davis is Radford Davis’s father and that they share the same residence.

Two of Bullshido’s members have reviewed a video of a man outside 1010 Ave W NW, Winter Haven Florida during daylight. The man appeared to be the older man in the following black and white pictures
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/sho...ight=no+commen t [post 34]

These pictures have been identified as being that Ashida Kim in Florida by one of his German followers, Andreas Leffler. See:

http://www.blackdragongerma ny.de/...lt weit_1.html
http://www.blackdragongerma ny.de/...lt weit_2.html

If our visual identification is accurate as we believe it to be, then Radford Davis and Kim/Hunter are one and the same person.

3) I am indebted to John Corcoran and Emil Farkas, whose book "The Original Martial Arts Encylopedia: Tradition-History-Pioneers" (Pro-Action Publishing, Los Angeles, revised 1993). pp. 288-2290 which provides a short history of martial arts films. Their discussion of Ninjutsu on pages 105-110, and Hatsumi and Hayes on pages 328 and 329 is also quite valuable.

4) Given that Kim/Hunter admits he never met Hatsumi on his website, http://ashidakim.com/index.html#faq he never studied in Japan with a legitimate master of Ninjutsu, before starting to write ninja books in 1980. At this time there were VERY few legitimate teachers in the United States other then Stephen Hayes, the suspicion in the MA community has been that Kim either totally made up his material or that he cribbed what little he knows of the art from the writings of Mr. Hayes or the late Donald Draeger. Alternately Kim could have simply borrowed from the Black Belt Magazine articles on this subject published starting in Jan 1978. Needless to say, even as someone who gained his Ninja knowledge from books, Hunter who has been reading M.A. publications for years, would be able to spot this problem immediately.

5) One phenomena in the Martial Arts community is that some instructors will trade rank between themselves so that they can claim the authority to teach additional arts. usually such trades are done without demonstrating any proficiency in the other art. With this certificate Chad could easily trade 'up' to a more 'legitimate' martial art lineage.

I would also like to thank Anthony, Kickcatcher, Asia, Chad, and Lawdog among others for helping out with this article.

(c) Bullshido 2005. May be reproduced for free on other websites, but not published, reproduced, sold for money or consideration, or used for financial gain, without written permission.
__________________
Samuel Browning

[Garland]

People like this are all over.
Reminds me of the guy in "Napoleon Dynamite"
it's okay though...because they get their shit rocked eventually when they try to use that shit in any sort of real physical altercation, i.e. a fight with anybody (experienced or not) that isn't a complete pussy.

People should STUDY up on the arts before committing to them, as well as taking a GOOD look at their would-be-instructor's credentials...and if not, I don't feel sorry for them.

even if they are rich, naive, suburbinite, yuppie scumbag kids. at least they gain the SELF CONFIDENCE and perhaps COCKINESS to get the bejesus stomped out of them.

Come to think of it...Ashida is doing the world a service by narrowing out the herd of people whom believe that they can fight (everybody does, until they get their ass kicked)...

a true fighter will remain a true fighter...even after recieving a beating...they learn from it. (ie an Ashida student would get the shit kicked out of him, and be all like...**** this, I want my money back so I can get a gold's gym, or 24 hour fitness membership...pump weights, and just hurt people)

[BoarSpear]

The students of the frauds are the problem garland and even worse the students of the students of the frauds...anyone who profits from selling nonsense as self defense is a complete lowlife. someone could believe the techniques they knew were real and wind up raped and or dead. All so some s.o.b. can drive a fancy car and live in a big house? much of the reason traditional martial arts are in the shape they are in today is the plethura of half trained brainwashed instructors running mcdojo's the world over. its the one good thing that came out of the ufc alot of bs in modern ma was exposed.
kims not the only @#$% doing this go on ebay you can buy software to create your own certificates...

[Garland]

The students of the frauds are the problem garland and even worse the students of the students of the frauds...anyone who profits from selling nonsense as self defense is a complete lowlife. someone could believe the techniques they knew were real and wind up raped and or dead. All so some s.o.b. can drive a fancy car and live in a big house? much of the reason traditional martial arts are in the shape they are in today is the plethura of half trained brainwashed instructors running mcdojo's the world over. its the one good thing that came out of the ufc alot of bs in modern ma was exposed.
kims not the only @#$% doing this go on ebay you can buy software to create your own certificates...

Man...we need less stupid people. mcdojo's give stupid people the means to get murdered. Overall...it benefits the world by decreasing the surplus population.

[BoarSpear]

Man...we need less stupid people. mcdojo's give stupid people the means to get murdered. Overall...it benefits the world by decreasing the surplus population.

So you are a fan of this jerk? agreed people ought to be more knowledable about the martial arts than they are, thats why they go to a school...
You have to realize we dont all have the time to research everything.
even if you are informed a little knowledge can be dangerous...for instance some people believe that there is only one book called The Art of War...but those of us with a little more experience know there are at least two authors with two different books of the same name...follow me here?

[Garland]

...

yeah...I know...I'm just being an asshole.

But ninjitsu...c'mon!!!!
Muay Thai black belts???
teaching Vale Tudo as a style of it's own, without listing the component arts (i.e. thai or judo, jiu jitsu...wrestling, boxing...etc)

Karate from the shaolin monks??!!!!

I honestly went to a local USSD school to check it out, and they claimed it was shaolin karate-kung fu from the monestary!
They were practicing hammer fists, overhand chops, and front snap kicks!!!!

I didn't say a damn thing...when it was my turn to show a technique on the bag (a lame ass wavemaster) I knocked the bag and the instructor holding it to the ground with a thai kick. whoops.

[BoarSpear]

Yeah nothing like finding yourself in a fool school with permission to "accidentally"
make an idiot of the Teacher...
Much foolishness abounds in the martial arts due to mysticism and hollywood.
thanks to hollywood people expect that "Masters" are all like Qui Chang Kang and Mr Miyagi this makes it easy for the frauds to dupe the average joe.
Lets get real, Ma's enjoy fighting...we meditate on violence if you will...now ask yourselves are we really that nice a group of people?
Nice people dont spend hours a day practicing to break bones, rip muscles from the bone, rip off chunks of flesh, eye gouge or choke and strangle people.
i have met very few Talented Ma who dont have some very heavy appetites whether it be for sex, alcohol, or intoxicants of one type or another. the guys who can really "turn it on" in a fight are not the guy you want dating your daughter...
oops got on a rant but see my point? we are not the most upstanding bunch in the first place...so the frauds get to have a field day. all they have to do is open a big school with lots of photo opps and paper. and of course spout shit about improving your kids grades and teaching them respect...(I thought that was the parents job) now theyre all martial arts babysitters N bullshitters.

[Toudiyama[NL]]

I liked the 7th kyu in Judo, that's what schools use that do not give a white belt to beginners, it is called mukyu ( empty grade)
As for the atarashi Naginata, I did Iaido for almost a year and could take the test for black belt ( we politely declined because we found it to soon)

BTW naginata do is a womens sport

[HtTKar]

BTW naginata do is a womens sport

now, why'd you have to say that? Its a stigma I tell you a stigma. Just because women can use a naginata, does not limit its use to women. They were used by samurai long before women used them to protect their children. I like naginata, but it does have that stigma. Why would any martial art be called a womans sport?

[Andrew WA]

Yeah nothing like finding yourself in a fool school with permission to "accidentally"
make an idiot of the Teacher...
Much foolishness abounds in the martial arts due to mysticism and hollywood.
thanks to hollywood people expect that "Masters" are all like Qui Chang Kang and Mr Miyagi this makes it easy for the frauds to dupe the average joe.
Lets get real, Ma's enjoy fighting...we meditate on violence if you will...now ask yourselves are we really that nice a group of people?
Nice people dont spend hours a day practicing to break bones, rip muscles from the bone, rip off chunks of flesh, eye gouge or choke and strangle people.
i have met very few Talented Ma who dont have some very heavy appetites whether it be for sex, alcohol, or intoxicants of one type or another. the guys who can really "turn it on" in a fight are not the guy you want dating your daughter...
oops got on a rant but see my point? we are not the most upstanding bunch in the first place...so the frauds get to have a field day. all they have to do is open a big school with lots of photo opps and paper. and of course spout shit about improving your kids grades and teaching them respect...(I thought that was the parents job) now theyre all martial arts babysitters N bullshitters.

The fact that a lot of guys who can beat people up well with martial arts are totally immoral assholes shows that the world of martial arts is going downhill. Ims ick of seeing all of these jerks walking around malls with their NHB shirts on (not that NHB shirts are bad) but their character is that of a "punk ass" and they think they are so tough. They have no responsibility with their skill and would go to parties and fight people. Its basically frat boys and gangster kids learning to kill people and this is not good.

Martial arts are for protection and in the old times men learned them to protect their homeland and their families. Instructors shouldnt teach anyone how to fight because not everyone deserves this knowledge!!

Traditional schools need to start creating fighters out of their students and not wussy kids with black belts. There needs to be a strong morality taught as well so when a stupid jerk MAAist bashes Traditional arts they will be wrong.

I am not saying MAAs are bad at all. Its the same in any case an MAA teacher shouldnt just teach anyone how to fight.

[BoarSpear]

The fact that a lot of guys who can beat people up well with martial arts are totally immoral assholes shows that the world of martial arts is going downhill. Im sick of seeing all of these jerks walking around malls with their NHB shirts on (not that NHB shirts are bad) but their character is that of a "punk ass" and they think they are so tough. They have no responsibility with their skill and would go to parties and fight people. Its basically frat boys and gangster kids learning to kill people and this is not good.

WHAAAT!!
surely you are not implying that MMA people are starting to act like Profesional athletes instead of martial Artist! just kidding i agree...
certainly many of the things you would like to see in todays Ma's is missing...
the two things that annoy me most are kids in malls, restaurants and dept stores in thier Gi. This makes it a costume and reduces the respect the art deserves and of course the MMa crowd with silly haircuts...tattoos/ shirts advertising thier choice of mma, and of course thier Horrible attitudes... they remind me of the women you see wearing the B#tch shirt...you know the one you see her , see her attitude and wonder why she wasted the money on the shirt....

[Andrew WA]

Well sometimes in the past didnt some Karateka wear their Gi's in the town and travel in it? Didnt Mas Oyama do that?

But yes it is odd when little kids are always in it. You never see many older kids in them much either. Its all just to advertise for the mcdojo or mcdojang. I see it all the time here.

But I do hate the NHB asshole attitude. All of them are such thugs most of the time, but I have met some really nice guys. Even though they were thugs they were actually cool, but still kind of mean about traditional arts. A lot just have that "too cool for you" attitude.

Another thing im sick of is seeing the son of a local master who is an absolute punk ass. You know wearing the saggy pants, tons of peircings, hats that say "can I play with your sexbox" etc...

[medic06]

Ah, the widespread affliction I call Martial arts induced psychosis. Some people really don't live in the real world. I've stopped calling myself a martial artist a long time ago so I wouldn't be confused with the rest of the goobers out there.

[BoarSpear]

Well sometimes in the past didnt some Karateka wear their Gi's in the town and travel in it? Didnt Mas Oyama do that?

But yes it is odd when little kids are always in it. You never see many older kids in them much either. Its all just to advertise for the mcdojo or mcdojang. I see it all the time here.

But I do hate the NHB asshole attitude. All of them are such thugs most of the time, but I have met some really nice guys. Even though they were thugs they were actually cool, but still kind of mean about traditional arts. A lot just have that "too cool for you" attitude.

Another thing im sick of is seeing the son of a local master who is an absolute punk ass. You know wearing the saggy pants, tons of peircings, hats that say "can I play with your sexbox" etc...

I have seen them eating in restaurants (little sister in a tutu) theaters and grocery stores. It takes away from the discipline and respect the uniform should symbolize, leading to older bad attituded thugs. Sure back in the day some experts may have worn thier gi to town but the 8 year old in walmart with the mullet and TKD uniform is a far cry from Mas Oyama.