Karate in "real life" - thoughts?

[johncorey]

Hello my fellow Martial Artists,

I have a question regarding Karate used in “real life”, as in real self-defence situations. I have been training in Karate for just over a year. I don’t particularly enjoy it all that much, but I do it because if I have to defend myself I want to be able to do it well. The thing is, I just don’t feel that what we do in the dojo sometimes will equate to real life. There is a big difference between practicing a certain technique over and over again in the dojo, and then being able to pull it off in real life. I think I need to spar much more, and to enter competitions and the like in order to get the feel of the applications of what we do at real speed. I am going to start training in boxing to supplement my training as well.

Does anyone have any advice or experience in regard to this?

And also, how effective would a combination of boxing and Karate be if you were a bouncer/doorman?

(sorry if this is too similar to the thread below)

[medic06]

what you do in the dojo won't equate to real life. you practice techniques over and over in the dojo so that in real life when you need them you can use them without even thinking about it (it takes about 5000-10000 reps). Boxing is great, the training is rigorous and it gives you great tools. It wouldn't hurt you at all to train in boxing.

I suggest training in jujitsu, judo, or another grappling style to complement your striking, especially if you are working as a bouncer.

[Shard]

Boxing is good but, take it in moderation. In my Opinion, Most boxers, tend to "Push" themselves to the limit, Day after day, Match after match. So you see really powerful and scary fighters in the ring, but after about 30 years or so of that type of fighting and training, most burnout.

You'll see 70 year old Karate and Kung fu Masters(Mas Oyama anyone?) (who can still fight and kick ass), But you'll barely see any 60 year old boxers still doing their thing. At best, they'll be coaching the next generation of boxers. I may be wrong but it seems like they've burnt out most of their circuits in their prime.
Considering your a bouncer, a Grappling/ Takedown Art that compliments your karate would be a great help. You won't always have space to do your kicks or chops in a pub/club/bar, thats where your grapples/locks come in. There'll also be times when a simple wrist lock and push will deter a trouble maker, you don't really want to punch everyone in the face right?

Make sure you're doing more than just katas and Combat applications. Those have limited use in a real fight. If possible, have your free sparring sessions recorded so that they can be reviewed and so you can improve on the aspects that you're weaker in.

[Kenpodog]

I have been training in Karate for just over a year. I don’t particularly enjoy it all that much

Hi johncorey, IMHO you HAVE TO LOVE IT, otherwise you won't practice daily and strive to learn more.

I just don’t feel that what we do in the dojo sometimes will equate to real life. There is a big difference between practicing a certain technique over and over again in the dojo, and then being able to pull it off in real life.

True, you have to learn Why your being taught the technique (principles behind it), WHY your doing the technique (in response to certain types of attacks) and WHY the technique works (mechanics, angles, power, speed, etc..) then it might work on the street.

[Tai Chi Fighter]

Use on the street

In my Karate class after we learn a technique we learn the aplications of that technique so that it comes automatically. It is a very fun and exciting class. True there are some techniques that can not be used in street self-defense, and are strictly for show. But that does not mean that you should not learn them. I have found Karate to be very effective on the street. Unfortunately both parties end up injured.

[HtTKar]

karate takes a long time to learn. 1 year into it (possibly blue-belt?), there is still much to learn. A black belt only means that you have grasped all your basics so you're not at that stage yet. Every art has its limitations. Shotokan for example is very straight-forward or side-to-side, much like a + sign. Goju jitsu is angles like a X sign. These arts go together well because they can make up for some of the limitations posed by the other art. Crosstraining improves both of these arts.

There are two different concepts that you're learning really. Karate, and fighting skills. If you dont spar at class, all you're learning is karate, but you wont be able to pull it off on anyone. When you fight, you dont use your karate style, you just do what you can to take the other person out of the fight. If all you did was spar everyday, you'd be a good fighter, but you wouldnt learn karate. They are different, and as such, you should practice both. They complement eachother.

Karate is just a way of doing things. All arts teach the same things at the basic levels, just different ways of doing them. They are all effective

[shaolin-warrior]

[QUOTE=HtTKar]karate takes a long time to learn. 1 year into it (possibly blue-belt?), there is still much to learn. A black belt only means that you have grasped all your basics so you're not at that stage yet.

Very well spoken, your martial arts training doesn't begin untill you become a black belt. All prior skills are just basics.

[LoneHusky]

Boxing is good but, take it in moderation. In my Opinion, Most boxers, tend to "Push" themselves to the limit, Day after day, Match after match. So you see really powerful and scary fighters in the ring, but after about 30 years or so of that type of fighting and training, most burnout.

You'll see 70 year old Karate and Kung fu Masters(Mas Oyama anyone?) (who can still fight and kick ass), But you'll barely see any 60 year old boxers still doing their thing. At best, they'll be coaching the next generation of boxers. I may be wrong but it seems like they've burnt out most of their circuits in their prime.
Considering your a bouncer, a Grappling/ Takedown Art that compliments your karate would be a great help. You won't always have space to do your kicks or chops in a pub/club/bar, thats where your grapples/locks come in. There'll also be times when a simple wrist lock and push will deter a trouble maker, you don't really want to punch everyone in the face right?

Make sure you're doing more than just katas and Combat applications. Those have limited use in a real fight. If possible, have your free sparring sessions recorded so that they can be reviewed and so you can improve on the aspects that you're weaker in.

I disagree I know plenty of old boxers who still train and spar full contact. They're the toughest men I know and I think in anything you do be it karate or boxing you should push yourself to your limit. You won't get results if you don't bust your ass and you're only cheating yourself.

[Shard]

Ali being one of them?

I'm not saying ALL Boxers KO and go into a Coma. I'm saying that those that aren't able to fight at 60+ are the ones who push themselves to the breaking points day in and day out. Training, PUSH! Match, PUSH! Tournament, PUSH HARDER!
Those who don't know their own limits really don't. Its only years down the road that their bodies begin to show the wear&tear. When it shows it really shows.

Yes, You have to work hard. Yes there are times when you must push yourself beyond your physical and mental limits. But you can't possibily push yourself day in day out. The human body was designed for incredible feats, just not everyday.
The ones who push themselves are like shooting stars. It doesn't last long but its the most incredible and most beautiful thing you'll ever see. On the other hand, you see stars every ding-dong day.
Honestly though, i bet if you asked Cassius Clay whether he would do it all over again if he knew he would get parkisons, he would tell you, he'd have fought even harder.

[LoneHusky]

Ali being one of them?

I'm not saying ALL Boxers KO and go into a Coma. I'm saying that those that aren't able to fight at 60+ are the ones who push themselves to the breaking points day in and day out. Training, PUSH! Match, PUSH! Tournament, PUSH HARDER!
Those who don't know their own limits really don't. Its only years down the road that their bodies begin to show the wear&tear. When it shows it really shows.

Yes, You have to work hard. Yes there are times when you must push yourself beyond your physical and mental limits. But you can't possibily push yourself day in day out. The human body was designed for incredible feats, just not everyday.
The ones who push themselves are like shooting stars. It doesn't last long but its the most incredible and most beautiful thing you'll ever see. On the other hand, you see stars every ding-dong day.
Honestly though, i bet if you asked Cassius Clay whether he would do it all over again if he knew he would get parkisons, he would tell you, he'd have fought even harder.

No not ali. You're right though the body does need time to heal.

[jubaji]

Honestly though, i bet if you asked Cassius Clay whether he would do it all over again if he knew he would get parkisons, he would tell you, he'd have fought even harder.

There is no proof that his Parkinson's was caused by boxing. That is a myth.

[jubaji]

I'm not saying ALL Boxers KO and go into a Coma. I'm saying that those that aren't able to fight at 60+ are the ones who push themselves to the breaking points day in and day out. Training, PUSH! Match, PUSH! Tournament, PUSH HARDER!
Those who don't know their own limits really don't. Its only years down the road that their bodies begin to show the wear&tear. When it shows it really shows.

Most people are quite unlikely to get into fights when they are over 60, and the ones who do are by and large gonna lose to aggressive 20 year-olds no matter what they do.

All this crap is really an excuse for people to be lazy wusses before they are 60.

[Tai Chi Fighter]

Martial Arts is like a circular ladder. Once you reach the rank of black belt you find yourself once again a beginner. The black belt is just another step towards mastery.

[Toudiyama[NL]]

Most people are quite unlikely to get into fights when they are over 60, and the ones who do are by and large gonna lose to aggressive 20 year-olds no matter what they do.

All this crap is really an excuse for people to be lazy wusses before they are 60.

Most people are quite unlikely to get into fights

If All this crap is really an excuse for people to be lazy wusses, why then will you find them actively training at 50, 60 and even 70 in for instance kyokushin Karate (as well as Judo, ju jitsu, aikido and kung fu)
Boxing however seems to lose its charm when people stop actively competing beyond 40

[jubaji]

Most people are quite unlikely to get into fights

Not boxers, etc. Wasn't that the point? Avoiding hard contact because you have to preserve your fighting ability for your 60's is a false premise. The fact that people can do something when they are old is hardly a testament to its martial value. Old people play bocce, shuffleboard, and generally drool alot. That doesn't make any of those an ideal training program for a 20-something fighter.