Standing locks

[medic06]

Locks by themselves are totally useless. It takes a proper setup and positioning

[Hikage]

Locks by themselves are totally useless. It takes a proper setup and positioning

<sigh>

Ok, here's the deal on locks and "come-alongs."

As far as someone hitting you when they are in a lock... you aren't in the lock long enough to really have a chance to pummel someone in the face while they are locking you. A properly applied lock would have you heading toward the ground the second pressure began. If someone swung at you while you had a lock on them, the punch would stop in mid-air because they would not maintain proper balance and position even to finish a punch. (This being said, most counters begin the moment that you feel contact and the potential for a lock. Timing in counters is crucial.)

An error many practitioners (including many instructors) make is they think in stages. Since we teach, first block, grab here, move here, twist here, we practice in that same mode. When locking in this way, you are guarunteeing failure. Lacking flow, the opponent will sense holes in the technique and will worm right out of it. You'll then be thinking, "see, I told those guys on that forum it doesn't work." No, you did it wrong. Locks (and all techniques for that matter) must be applied in a fluid motion. All steps being performed at the same time.

As far as "come-alongs" and submissions (as I call them) the key here is to sense your opponent. In these situations, the intent is usually to control the opponent, not break him/her in 20 places, so the lock isn't as tight as it possibly could be, only tight enough to warrant surrender to you wishes. If someone in a submission does make a move, simply apply the lock harder, to the point of breaking, and the attack will stop in mid air. There is no need for fancy moves or blocks.

Here's a scenario for you. Get into a position where you are submitting an opponent using a standing wrist lock. You should be standing next to him, shoulder to shoulder, with his elbow on your chest and wrist sticking straight out. (If you want to know specifically how to get here from an attack, let me know) Using your two hands, you can pull the back of his hand, stretching his wrist. Have the uke (slowly) make a move as if he is going to punch you. You will feel his body move (his close shoulder has to turn away from you in order for the far one to become close). When this happens, apply more pressure to his wrist (don't break it, remember this is your training budy). You'll see him unable to continue his attack.

I've been put in them, as I said, and some where better than others, even when performed my high ranking martial artists.

I'm curious as to what/whom you consider to be high-ranking. To some, a red belt is high-ranking. To others, 1st to 3rd dan is high-ranking. To me, over 6th or 7th is high-ranking.

Also, bear in mind, that many who do locks and teach them, don't have the slightest clue as to what they are doing because they've never really studied and dissected the techniques for a variety of reasons.

-Hikage

[danfaggella]

But also, some locks just work better on guys with longer limbs or guys with less flexible fingers, wrists, and shoulders.

[Tant01]

Picture this>>>Resistance after the "lock" is defined will only cause severe injury, odds are they didn't want to inflict serious trauma and simply released the hold...

???


I've had locks and let them go because idiots don't want to tap. You can't just break the fingers, wrist, elbow or shoulder of your training partners or even a resisting and stubborn student you DON'T like, likewise with ankle locks...knee locks etc.

Surgery gets spendy these days...

[danfaggella]

So does irreperable nerve/tendon damage.

[Hikage]

But also, some locks just work better on guys with longer limbs or guys with less flexible fingers, wrists, and shoulders.

Very true....

When you study your locks, you need to pay close attention to this difference in body type. What you'll end up doing is making a slight variation to the lock depending on the body type. For example, on shoulder locks, I tend to hold smaller guys in position by gripping both of my hands together, using the bones in my arms to dig into the forearm, and then I move behind them as I direct them down. Since a larger individual won't have as much flexibility in their shoulders, I typically grip their arms directly with my hands and position myself to the side so they don't fall on my on the way down.

[medic06]

<sigh>

Ok, here's the deal on locks and "come-alongs."

As far as someone hitting you when they are in a lock... you aren't in the lock long enough to really have a chance to pummel someone in the face while they are locking you. A properly applied lock would have you heading toward the ground the second pressure began. If someone swung at you while you had a lock on them, the punch would stop in mid-air because they would not maintain proper balance and position even to finish a punch. (This being said, most counters begin the moment that you feel contact and the potential for a lock. Timing in counters is crucial.)

An error many practitioners (including many instructors) make is they think in stages. Since we teach, first block, grab here, move here, twist here, we practice in that same mode. When locking in this way, you are guarunteeing failure. Lacking flow, the opponent will sense holes in the technique and will worm right out of it. You'll then be thinking, "see, I told those guys on that forum it doesn't work." No, you did it wrong. Locks (and all techniques for that matter) must be applied in a fluid motion. All steps being performed at the same time.

As far as "come-alongs" and submissions (as I call them) the key here is to sense your opponent. In these situations, the intent is usually to control the opponent, not break him/her in 20 places, so the lock isn't as tight as it possibly could be, only tight enough to warrant surrender to you wishes. If someone in a submission does make a move, simply apply the lock harder, to the point of breaking, and the attack will stop in mid air. There is no need for fancy moves or blocks.

Here's a scenario for you. Get into a position where you are submitting an opponent using a standing wrist lock. You should be standing next to him, shoulder to shoulder, with his elbow on your chest and wrist sticking straight out. (If you want to know specifically how to get here from an attack, let me know) Using your two hands, you can pull the back of his hand, stretching his wrist. Have the uke (slowly) make a move as if he is going to punch you. You will feel his body move (his close shoulder has to turn away from you in order for the far one to become close). When this happens, apply more pressure to his wrist (don't break it, remember this is your training budy). You'll see him unable to continue his attack.



I'm curious as to what/whom you consider to be high-ranking. To some, a red belt is high-ranking. To others, 1st to 3rd dan is high-ranking. To me, over 6th or 7th is high-ranking.

Also, bear in mind, that many who do locks and teach them, don't have the slightest clue as to what they are doing because they've never really studied and dissected the techniques for a variety of reasons.

-Hikage

Basically your saying just what I was, only you took about 3 pages to do it I've studied Hapkido for 14 years so I know a little about locks.

Problem is most people never make it to the "lock". they have no idea how to get there, no setup. But, once you are in the lock, I agree, you're screwed

Sorry about the mix up

[Hikage]

Locks by themselves are totally useless.

I can see how we could be mixed up.....

-Hikage

PS> Are you defending locks or opposing them? Hard to tell.

[medic06]

Defending them. I should have clarified that most folks don't know how to get to the lock. That's what I was referring to .

In jujitsu they have what some call the "tickle test". This means if you can reach up and tickle someone's nose while they have you "locked" then they really don't have you locked.