New Kid on the Block

[Hardball]

Hey gang,

I've joined a new dojo (within my core system) and I've been attending classes about 3 weeks now. I'm 1st degree Black belt and the head instructors are 8th and 9th Dan respectively.

There is one or two Black Belts there that are giving me a hard time. Unneccessary roughness and cheap shots.

Has anybody experienced this? My goal is to make rank; 2nd degree and possibly 3rd in a couple of years.

How would you handle this situation? At first, I backed down and used the modest and humble approach. Giving respect where respect is due.

It doesn't seem to be working so this week, I cranked it up a notch. Started throwing harder, acting more serious and basically becoming more verbal. ie. Verbal judo.

I don't want to jepordize anyones health or my own through injuries or horseplay but I cannot let anyone stand in the way of my goals. How should I approach this--ruffhouse or passive? Being a new kid on the block--I interpet this behavior as challenges. I am 5'11" and 205 and in pretty decent shape; should I accept these challenges? (I am 48 and my Black belt peers are around the same age)

P.S. I am talking mostly about throwing and ukeing.

[DoubleJ1503]

work on your and when your doing randori submit them alot.

[Tant01]

Too much ego requires you to establish the "pecking order". Who is better, the guy that throws hardest or the guy that can roll with the punches? It's up to you.

I say choke them out gently or make them tap out enough times and they'll get the idea...

[Tom Yum]

I don't want to jepordize anyones health or my own through injuries or horseplay but I cannot let anyone stand in the way of my goals. How should I approach this--ruffhouse or passive? Being a new kid on the block--I interpet this behavior as challenges. I am 5'11" and 205 and in pretty decent shape; should I accept these challenges. (I am 48 and my Black belty peers are around the same age)

P.S. I am talking mostly about throwing and ukeing.

Don't let it get personal if you can. Keep to yourself, show respect every chance you get but let your jiujitsu do the talking.

Ever get a chance to see the Houston Rocket Yao Ming play b-ball? I remember watching him when he was relatively new and the guys on the opposing team used every cheap shot they could to intimidate and instigate the giant. He kept to himself and just shut them down every chance he got. Kinda like payback.

Have I experienced this? Yes. I was running an org. with a member who was cynical and skeptical about every damned thing I did and was very verbal about it not only to me but to our members. We butted heads publicly and behind each others back.

As time went on, he and I developed a dialog and as the organization became more successfull, we've drawn closer not only as classmates but as friends. The org. did quite well and is doing even better today.

To make a long story short, I grabbed onto what little vision I had, prayed on it, made something of it despite his thoughts and words against me and this eventually earned respect in his eyes.

I don't know if this is like your situation, but I hope it helps.

[Hardball]

Get this, I took everyones advice on this issue. Well, last night there was only three of us in class. (Off night the 6th is teaching and not the 9th) The Black belts had backed off and accepted my modest and humble approach---all but criticizing my breakfalls that I have been doing for 10 years. So wtf, I am there to learn and I can accept criticisim.

So last night this 18 year old green belt kid, 185, 6'2" is working with me and he has absolutely no control. I talk to him and warn him about his control yet he cranks it up even more. He roundhouse kicked me on the side of the knee about 5 times without control, during a drill similar to one step sparring only the drill ends with a throw. To make a long story short, the kid ruffed me up very very bad. Me, never the one to allow intentional roughness waited for my turn. On the very last technique of the night, I was forced to pile drive in by launching my full 200lb 5'11" frame into him on a single leg rear scoop throw. He hollared when he hit the mat and said I jammed his shoulder. I Really think it is a lot more than jam depending on how he did his first aid when he got home. Incidently, I had an ice pack on my knee for an half hour when I got home. Tiger balm, sports cream, advill and tonight epson salt.

What would you have done? What could I have done differently? The instructor ( a 6th) had warned him also that he was intentionally trying to hurt me.

P.S. I am 48 1/2 and I am trying to stay healthy and injury free long enough to earn my 2nd degree and possibily my third.

[GQchris]

Don't let it get personal if you can. Keep to yourself, show respect every chance you get but let your jiujitsu do the talking.

Ever get a chance to see the Houston Rocket Yao Ming play b-ball? I remember watching him when he was relatively new and the guys on the opposing team used every cheap shot they could to intimidate and instigate the giant. He kept to himself and just shut them down every chance he got. Kinda like payback.

Have I experienced this? Yes. I was running an org. with a member who was cynical and skeptical about every damned thing I did and was very verbal about it not only to me but to our members. We butted heads publicly and behind each others back.

As time went on, he and I developed a dialog and as the organization became more successfull, we've drawn closer not only as classmates but as friends. The org. did quite well and is doing even better today.

To make a long story short, I grabbed onto what little vision I had, prayed on it, made something of it despite his thoughts and words against me and this eventually earned respect in his eyes.

I don't know if this is like your situation, but I hope it helps.

elaborate on "praying on it" I seem to be struggling with this lately...

[Tant01]

Elbow his chin...?

.....

So last night this 18 year old green belt kid, 185, 6'2" is working with me and he has absolutely no control. I talk to him and warn him about his control yet he cranks it up even more. He roundhouse kicked me on the side of the knee about 5 times without control, during a drill similar to one step sparring only the drill ends with a throw. ....
What would you have done? What could I have done differently? The instructor ( a 6th) had warned him also that he was intentionally trying to hurt me.

P.S. I am 48 1/2 and I am trying to stay healthy and injury free long enough to earn my 2nd degree and possibily my third.

"Accidently" smack the punk (hard). I wouldn't wait until your knee gets F*ed up... Make a point to "educate" your partners. You MUST SET limits for them or you end up on ice... (packs) That's NO FUN!

Seriously, counter attack or attack the attack. That's just wrong. Tell the kid if he wants to kick like that then you need a pad. Or DON'T LET HIM KICK YOU!!! Use your brain Hardball!


PS... Sorry HB. I take issue with ego in the Dojo. There is no reason to tolerate that kind of behavior in class. It's one thing to be all COCKY on an internet forum (see avatar) but the Jujutsu academy is for learning and friendly cooperation is a must!

[Tom Yum]

elaborate on "praying on it" I seem to be struggling with this lately...

PM inbound.

[blitz]

I don't know what I would do in the situation with the green belt, but don't give him a chance to injure you just because he's a dumbass. As for the breakfalls and the critisicim you are recieving; there are lots of ways to do breakfalls, like in judo and bjj the breakfalls are a little different, well at least the way I take them they are different from the ways I saw in the Kodokan Judo book.

Anyway it's good that your going for the 3rd degree, good luck and work hard I want to try and achieve my blue belt by the end of this year in bjj, hopefully I'll succeed.

[Tant01]

Care to give us an update Hardball? How's your knee doing? Any lingering effects from the beating Mr. Greenbelt gave it?

Ever slam him? Getting the point across about self control yet?

Learning any (many) new tricks?

Thanks...

[Hardball]

Care to give us an update Hardball? How's your knee doing? Any lingering effects from the beating Mr. Greenbelt gave it?

Ever slam him? Getting the point across about self control yet?

Learning any (many) new tricks?

Thanks...

Thanks for asking. First let me say, the kid is 6'2" 185lbs and supposed to be 18 years old. It was the worst case scenario. I never went back because of hard feelings and possible lawsuit and other Street issues; if you know what I mean. The kid suffered a broken shoulder from my rear scoop pile drive but he asked for it by roundhouse kicking me in my knee about five times. The good news is that my original instructor got promoted to 3rd, so I may go back and train with him once my knee heals. The soreness is gone in my knee but there is significant structual damage. Lateral movement is non existent right now. I haven't done kicking drills in four weeks, I'm just resting my knees and stretching everyday.

[Tant01]

That's too bad, sorry to hear (read) about the hard feelings! It's sad that folks can't seem to keep the ego in check. He must have realized the damage he was doing? Or maybe not? There are some SERIOUSLY ignorant "artists" out there! I've had my share of that kind of encounter.... long story there. Lets just say "belts" are cheap! Doctors are not! If you can stay out of court, more power to ya! My lifestyle is one of poverty by choice. Better than giving it to the wads that think the world owes them something! Don't get me started!

Well, your knee should be back in shape in a few more weeks unless the damage is severe. Lets hope? Surgeries can fix things sometimes but they cost a crapload these days! I wish you the very best with recovery buddy. My rt. knee is effectively crippled by hyper extension many years ago... I thought it would be fine, right? LOL Well young and dumb! Don't wait a year to get it checked out! Have you been x-rayed? Maybe you should? Just a thought.

You know Jujutsu was mainly taught by Kata practice and now you have a good idea why... some things are just not safe to actually DO to a friend or training partner... Judo is better IMO just because they keep it safe for the players (mostly) And like I said they make those cool pads to practice the kicking and stuff! I would like to have had it turn out better for both of you! The GENTLE art and all that... you know!

Just gotta take the good with the bad I suppose, it's the nature of the game and the beast!

Thanks again for the update and hope you heal!

If I lived closer I would offer my services but I don't usually teach outside my family. And I have no formal rank so I don't grade with belts or certificates. Just teaching the fundamentals is fun and I miss the way the eyes light up when a student can put it all together for the first time...

It's great to watch a student school a "master"... In a demented and dark kinda way. I suppose you may never know exactly what I mean but maybe you do? Think Dojo invasion or storming the Kwon, cleaning up and leaving some blood on the mats. Nasty business. Turns some folks into assholes but it can be fun if they need a bit of humility. I hate a high horse... Oh well, too old for it any more.


Rant off...

May your journey be filled with good students, good teachers and good times! Hope you can look back and be happy with the path you've made.

All the best,

Ray

[Hardball]

Thanks, I understand everything you said. My body is pretty resilent I should heal with rest. I look back in restropect and realize that I should have started blocking those roundhouse kicks after the 2nd or 3rd kick and the verbal warning. I enjoyed the thread in the MT forumn on "Toes up or toes down" to do a shin block. That's one of my next projects.............ie. shin conditioning and working on the shin block. I had no idea that flexing your toes up would bring muscle over your shin bone. I tried it and it does.

[thescottishdude]

In the clubs I've been in 99% of the people are fine, and make good mates for a drink afterwards. But there's always one "nut" who takes the whole thing too seriously and violently. If there's more than one just give them a kicking one night at sparring and then don't come back.

[Hardball]

Certain techniques you can use on sparring partners and training ukes and certain techniques are reserverved for bitter enemies on the street or life threatening situations in Combat. I don't think 5 full fledged roundhouse kicks to the outside of the knee fit the first category.