Shotokan in action

[kuk sool won]

Durahell, i have trained in basically all aspects of sparring, from stand up point sparring to full contact MMA style. Beleive me there is a BIG difference when there is the realisation that you WILL get hurt. in point sparring all thats in your head is to land a strike and move away without having one scored against you, you don't bother with striking with full power because its not needed and im presuming illegal in your art. Although to you it may seem a strange comment to make but you have to 'learn to get hit'. A person who has sparred full contact for years will react very differently than someone who has sparred via the point system. It such a different game.

[Durahell]

Indeed a different game and if you learn the game you learn that the game's not the whole picture.

[Juicefree]

When I switch to full-contact fighting, I will reply to this thread. If I was wrong, I will admit it. If my theory still holds at some boarders, I will explain what I miss from Shotokan-style and what I think is good with full-contact fighting

Make sure you do.

I think you are on the right path but have a lot to learn.

Best of luck to you, and make sure you make that post so we can all learn from you too

[Durahell]

Make sure you do.

I think you are on the right path but have a lot to learn.

Best of luck to you, and make sure you make that post so we can all learn from you too

Hehe ok thanks mate Will do

[Nips]

Kuk sool won has got it on the money. You DO need to learn how to get hit. Like, why do you think people in Kyokushin classes will stay after the class with a partner, lay on their backs and have them smack a medicine ball on their stomach for 15 minutes or so? Fun?
I think you're pretty enthusiastic about martial arts, which is a great thing, and I'm looking foward to you doing some full contact martial arts so you can see the difference. I'm not saying that Shotokan isn't worthwhile... not what-so-ever. I'm just saying that producing strong fighters mightn't neccersarily be what it's best at doing. Producing good people - for sure.

I'm looking foward to your post after you've made the tansfer, thanks for contributing

[Durahell]

Kuk sool won has got it on the money. You DO need to learn how to get hit. Like, why do you think people in Kyokushin classes will stay after the class with a partner, lay on their backs and have them smack a medicine ball on their stomach for 15 minutes or so? Fun?
I think you're pretty enthusiastic about martial arts, which is a great thing, and I'm looking foward to you doing some full contact martial arts so you can see the difference. I'm not saying that Shotokan isn't worthwhile... not what-so-ever. I'm just saying that producing strong fighters mightn't neccersarily be what it's best at doing. Producing good people - for sure.

I'm looking foward to your post after you've made the tansfer, thanks for contributing

Hehe just don't you people forget about the thread It's a number of months left.

[jubaji]

I've been reading tons of comments from allover the internet commenting the karate style known as Shotokan Karate. The comments often go on about it being the weakest form of karate and a worthless self-defence art. And now, I want to discuss everything that has to do with Shotokan Karate.

Many people start with the one thing about Shotokan not being about full contact. And that that alone is making it a worthless sport. But who actually believes in this bullshit? Yes, I am willing to go as long as that and call it actual bullshit, no offence. To those who have not studied shotokan they should know it's all about respect, and then you cannot harm your karateka's. You all work together at the same time you work agains yourself most of the time. Shotokan is incredibly pedantic (dunno if that's a word). Which means that the studens have to train extremely hard to get EVERY aspect of a technique absolutely perfect.

This alone creates a very tricky form of training where you have to use your brain alot. To get all the motoristic aspects working fluidly.

Shotokan does have semi-contact sparring. Is that effective then? It is incredibly good to get your footwork going. But technique wise not many techniques can be used. it's basicly just punching and roundhousekicks/front-snap-kicks. Many people say "full contact is better, it toughens you up, learn from your mistakes, you'll know how it feels like to get hi". And my natural responce to that is always "what kind of an idiot doesn't know that getting hit HURTS?

I'd say Shotokan is great contest-wise. You don't get hit noir hit your opponent. BUT, it's point gathering and due to that you really don't want to get hit because then the opponent get's either a win or half a point.
To me, this should really build up your blocking techniques due to every kick or punch has to be seen extremely serious. And not in other contests where you easily could let one punch or two slip in.

What is shotokan all about then? To be able to get out of a fight as fast as possible without any unecessairly confrontations. That's why the techniques that are teached can be very cruel and damageing. Many of the techniques have a large risk of either permanently damageing your opponent or put his/her life at danger. So that's why, shotokan wouldn't do well at all Full-Contact wise. There some are some techniques that are concidered very low-danger but it still wouldn't give much variation enough to actually win against a routine skilled full-contact opponent.

So maby shotokan doesn't do very well sport-wise. But how about in it's originally intended place? The "self-defence" section?

That is the absolutely hardest thing to answer to me. And I bet you also would have a pretty difficult time determing wether it would work or not.
I'd say, it's up to the person itself. We all know, that in a real life situation what matters absolutely most, is REFLEXES!!! If you hit your opponent first with a technique which is predicted to bring your opponent down in just one hit, you will win the fight.

What do you think would happen to a full-contact figher if he is confronted by a real-life fight? His first reaction would be to throw a punch or kick or whatever would be legal in a full-contact fight. Of course it would be effective, but due to all the contesting instead of a truly lethal blow, instead a more "soft" one would be triggered. This is something that might differ from someone who has never truly gone a full-contact match. A self-defence trainee would probably go for a neck/throat/eye blow right away.
Theese are only assumptions I'm making. Which I'm here to do in this thread. You're free to comment.

I am currently training shotokan Karate and have been doing now for almost two years. I find it a great way of getting into shape and protecting yourself. Even though you don't have to hit yourself and others all messed up. We also have almost no worries of getting permanent wounds when training. I also train some kickboxing now. But also this one, without any real full contact either than on sandbags and against an opponent who is holding a very protecting pillow.

What I would say to all who are training shotokan, is to try and snap out of the intensive thinking that's involved. If a real fight would come your first thing to do should not be to think "he's coming at me with a high blow, I can use my age-uke and then counter, or step aside and..." you get the point. Forget all about that you are training shotokan, there's no time to think. Just react and see whatever happends.

It's a very beautiful art involving life and spirit at the same time. And if you haven't trained it, don't judge it before you see it's true capabilities.

Was there a coherent point to any of that? Dude, smoke it a little at a time, that way it will last longer.

[jubaji]

how can it not be full speed if one succeeds to throw a punch at full speed + full power and just stop the technique before impact? .

................wtf?!

[peppi]

I've been reading tons of comments from allover the internet commenting the karate style known as Shotokan Karate. The comments often go on about it being the weakest form of karate and a worthless self-defence art.

Me too. But check out "Shotokan's Secret: The Hidden Truth Behind Karate's Fighting Origins" by Bruce D. Clayton