What Do You Think Of Akido?

[Tom Yum]

Examples to look at? You mean like Youtube? No.

Even pictures would do.

Seen some combat taiji applications on video -- and was very impressed, since the instructor was always concerned with attack/defense, he pays very close attention to where he is w/ respect to his opponent, his balance, where his enemy will try to attack and how the movements play straight into combat.

You can be sure that I didn't mean suplexing. See "direct method".

A suplex isn't a bad move if you're in the position to do one. People have this thing for head lock control and if you can suplex, why not?

[Uke]

I have read Aikido books that show a lot of techniques against boxing....

I'd love to see that. Boxing is a NIGHTMARE for aikidoka in that boxing rarely if ever charges in and offers the committed momentum that Aikido requires to blend and break the balance.

I'd be very interested in seeing any aikido technique that is supposedly useful for fighting a boxer. The way ukes attack in aikido is a far stretch from boxing.

Even the people who have modernized their system acknowledge this problem and have gone outside of the Aikido skill set to solve it.

So again, if you would, post anything on aikido effectively defending against a boxer.

If and when you do post something the boxer won't be slow and plodding, and telegraphing his jab and holding back his right hand.

[Uke]

Then it goes on to describe jabs, Jab-crosses, jab-cross-hooks and uppercuts and some ways to defend against them. I'll admit it is anything but comprehensive, but it shows how at least one Aikidoka understands the enemy he will fight, and how that enemy is not just going to dangle an arm out there or grab him by the wrist. It also says in this book that to fight a boxer one must train like one and train with one.

That's what I thought. I never said that they don't attempt to try and find ways to fight boxers, but I know that the art of Aikido itself doesn't prepare a student for the stick and move art of western pugilism.

But then again, I have never seen many fights between a trained boxer and an Aikidoka. I don't know what would take place in a lightning fast exchange in some environment other then a boxing gym, ring or dojo with mats.

I do and I've seen traditional aikidoka get their asses kicked trying to execute tenkans during a match. That's not to say that they were push overs, but the licks that they got in certainly weren't Aikido techniques.

if you read posts on the aikiwebforum, you will see that a lot of Aikidoka worry about boxers as well, but honestly you might be able to say that about any asian martial art.

I've seen karateka beat boxers. Kung Fu stylists as well. Do you know why? Its because these men were aggressive fighters. They didn't always wait for the aggression to be brought to them. They were willing and able to bring the fight to the boxer. So obviously I disagree that you could say that about most asian arts.

But, those guys discuss it and a suprising few have studied BJJ and other MMA's. I think a few would agree that for pure fighting, you must cross train, and Aikido is not the be-all, end-all. However, most take Aikido not to fight others, but to conquer themselves. It's a different attitude that practical minded fighters might not share.

Nothing is the end-all, be-all, but some things are definitely better than others. And BTW, many do not take Aikido to conquer themselves. I know of quite a few schools that teach Aikido, and they can fight like the devil. They are really different in their execution. They are still very graceful. Extremely graceful actually, but they hit like a ton of bricks. The most impressive ones were no taller than 5'9 and under, but they were vicious, even though they kept a pleasant look on their faces the entire time they were executing.

As someone once said its less about the style and more about the way you train in it. Aikido can be vicious if a man shifts some things here and there and gives it and his own attitude a makeover. Pure Aikido I'm not so sure about, but I can take people to schools that are heavily influenced by aikido/aikijutsu and promise you that you'd feel differently after you left.

[DickHardman]

i did aikido for a few months, it was wack. too much traditional bs, too soft for me. all the students were all out of shape. i needed harder contact and hard conditioning so i moved on to judo and then to muay thai and jiu jitsu.

in aikido i was learning how to say all kinds of words in japanese, while in judo i was running back and forth from one side of the building to the other with another person on my shoulders in a firemans carry.

[Uke]

i did aikido for a few months, it was wack. too much traditional bs, too soft for me. all the students were all out of shape. i needed harder contact and hard conditioning so i moved on to judo and then to muay thai and jiu jitsu.

in aikido i was learning how to say all kinds of words in japanese, while in judo i was running back and forth from one side of the building to the other with another person on my shoulders in a firemans carry.

LOL ... that sounds about right for a traditional American Aikido school. But as I said, don't let your experience sour you to Aikido. You've only experienced one interpretation of it.

[DickHardman]

Following that line of reasoning, why did you waste your time with Judo when you could have been doing SEAL training instead?

arent the martial arts the seals train in derived from some of the very arts i train in?? no need to **** with a middleman, go str8 to the source.

btw what was wrong with that reasoning? aikido did not provide the training i was looking for, so i had to move on and find it somewhere else. thats all there is to it.

[Ghost]

Following that line of reasoning, why did you waste your time with Judo when you could have been doing SEAL training instead?

a navy seal would be less effective than a highly conditioned and highly trained martial artist with the correct mindset as the martial artist spends more time training hand to hand combat.

ive sparred with elite combat troop guys in the uk, paratroopers, even one ex sas guy, nothing to write home about. they dont give up but skill wise there is nothing going on. if you too are fit you will win.
give them a rifle and a mission and its a different ball game.

[DickHardman]

a navy seal would be less effective than a highly conditioned and highly trained martial artist with the correct mindset as the martial artist spends more time training hand to hand combat.

yup.

thats why military forces look to experienced martial artists to train their people.

[Ghost]

What is wrong is that you state Aikido is "whack", because you found judo training to be that much more hardcore. I am saying that following your reasoning, Judo training is far less hardcore then SEAL training. I am just making a point, that Judo is "whack" compared to SEAL training. Of course, I don't believe any martial art is "Whack" except Tae-Bo, but you obviously do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_SEALs

Just look at the hell week portion, and tell me what Judo or Muay Thai or BJJ (or any martial art) keeps you wet, hungry, tired and covered in sand for one week straight, with less then 4 hours sleep the entire time? With whatever martial arts training you are doing, you get to go home after 2 hours and relax. SEALS don't.

Oh yeah, there is an Aikido boot camp in Japan where you do breakfalls until you are bleeding. It's called the riot police course, and it lasts 1 year.

Check out "Angry white pyjamas".

LOL! whats the point of that, 1 year of non stop break falls sounds unrealistic. im sure they do other things in that time too

And yeah, hell weeks sounds like my average week to me. no biggie. i did that last week, and the week before. and 4 hours sleep is for pussies, i dont sleep.....ever.
HARDCORE!

[Uke]

a navy seal would be less effective than a highly conditioned and highly trained martial artist with the correct mindset as the martial artist spends more time training hand to hand combat.

ive sparred with elite combat troop guys in the uk, paratroopers, even one ex sas guy, nothing to write home about. they dont give up but skill wise there is nothing going on. if you too are fit you will win.
give them a rifle and a mission and its a different ball game.

Very, very true. People watch movies and get the idea that SF guys are privy to some special fighting method that no one else is. That is, until they show up to train and the truth comes out.

Ghost's post should open up a lot of eyes. The big factor in this scenario wasn't the style. It wasn't the lineage. It was the conditioning. The conditioning was just as if not more important than anything else. For all the elite training, top secret blah blah blah ... its always the athletes, military and professional, that are held up as the best ONLY because of their conditioning. We've seen MMA fighters and how they perform without a pro level of conditioning. Just look at the first three UFC's. It was sloppy. It was even a bit funny, but it was MUCH, MUCH closer to what you'd see in reality than the thaiboxing/wrestling matches we see today.

Most people who work for a living do not have that level of conditioning, and even at some point if they ever do achieve a pro level of conditioning 9 times out of 10 they won't be able to maintain it as long as they have to work at some point. SEALS practice and attain that level for a living, as do MMA fighters, as do boxers and kickboxers, wrestlers. They have sponsors that pay for them to be able to have the time to dedicate to reach that level.

I just think that people should examine their goals more carefully. Too many train for one thing with the hope that it will prepare them for another. If you want to be a bad ass in the ring, go with the MMA program. If you want to be able to protect yourself and your family, go with modern RBSD. If you want to be a killer who is trained to an expert level with munitions, demolition and stealth, then try out for Special Forces.

Taking strictly traditional judo or aikido probably won't satisfy any of those three, as most TMA's won't. So enjoy yourself doing whatever you're doing.

[Shoot]

Good point. We all have big respect for SEALS and other SF, but they are not training for mono y mono empty hand combat. That scenario is very unlikely in combat and not worth spending much time training for. They are trained to always seek the advantage in combat. Advantage is gained by surprise or superior weaponry. Intentionally fighting bare handed in real life or death fighting would be the worst case scenario. I have a similar mind set for self defense. I’m over training for a “fist fight.” That’s about the stupidest scenario I can think of. The odds of injury training full contact for such an event exponentially exceed the odds of getting in a one on one fist fight. So, to each his own I guess.

So, tying this into the Aikido question: I just don’t see Aikido as a providing good training for the ring-style fist fight or for a self defense situation or combat. I really don’t see any benefit other than what I stated earlier: it’s a low intensity exercise that doesn’t greatly increase any athletic attributes and a neat philosophy. You might make a friend doing it.

[DickHardman]

What is wrong is that you state Aikido is "whack", because you found judo training to be that much more hardcore. I am saying that following your reasoning, Judo training is far less hardcore then SEAL training. I am just making a point, that Judo is "whack" compared to SEAL training. Of course, I don't believe any martial art is "Whack" except Tae-Bo, but you obviously do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_SEALs

Just look at the hell week portion, and tell me what Judo or Muay Thai or BJJ (or any martial art) keeps you wet, hungry, tired and covered in sand for one week straight, with less then 4 hours sleep the entire time? With whatever martial arts training you are doing, you get to go home after 2 hours and relax. SEALS don't.

Oh yeah, there is an Aikido boot camp in Japan where you do breakfalls until you are bleeding. It's called the riot police course, and it lasts 1 year.

Check out "Angry white pyjamas".

yeah i didnt like aikido so i moved on to something else that i liked more. whats wrong with that?

btw what does being wet, hungry, tired, dirty, and sleep deprived have to do with training in martial arts? absolutely nothing. im not looking to become a navy seal or a marine, im looking to study martial arts.

[DickHardman]

Your own statements. You say that you were learning Japanese language in Aikido, and doing fireman carries in Judo. I pointed out that Seal training is considerably harder then Judo training. The difference is, I don't think Judo is "Whack" when I compare it to SEAL training. Do you get my point at all? A poster who has been through SEAL training could easily have posted on a Judo topic-"I tried Judo, and it was Whack- They were teaching me flipping and throwing for 2 hours a day-I just got done with Hell week where we were eating sand for breakfast, lunch and dinner, 24/7!"

whats your point? if someone doing seal training doesnt like judo, wtf do i care? everyones different, everyone likes different shit. im sure theres plenty of people who like aikido, i personally didnt. there were a lot of those kids who are into that anime/cartoon porn/tentacle rape stuff that were really into aikido, they enjoyed the japanese culture and all that stuff, and thats fine. it just wasnt my cup of tea. no point in doing something you dont like.

And regardless, you are what, in your early 20's? Try doing fireman carries across the dojo when you are my age, and then get back to me. I never said Aikido was the top art for self-defense. I said it was a good art, with sound principals, and that many of the original practicioners (including the founder) were skilled in many different arts besides Aikido, especially Judo. You are the one that said it is "whack", so I got to call BS on that. Just as if anyone calls your chosen style "whack", because you don't train with Knives and tear gas and do HALO jumps.

yeah i said it was wack, but thats just my opinion. dont get all sad cheeks cause im not into the style you train in.

[Uke]

Your own statements. You say that you were learning Japanese language in Aikido, and doing fireman carries in Judo. I pointed out that Seal training is considerably harder then Judo training. The difference is, I don't think Judo is "Whack" when I compare it to SEAL training. Do you get my point at all? A poster who has been through SEAL training could easily have posted on a Judo topic-"I tried Judo, and it was Whack- They were teaching me flipping and throwing for 2 hours a day-I just got done with Hell week where we were eating sand for breakfast, lunch and dinner, 24/7!"

And regardless, you are what, in your early 20's? Try doing fireman carries across the dojo when you are my age, and then get back to me. I never said Aikido was the top art for self-defense. I said it was a good art, with sound principals, and that many of the original practicioners (including the founder) were skilled in many different arts besides Aikido, especially Judo. You are the one that said it is "whack", so I got to call BS on that. Just as if anyone calls your chosen style "whack", because you don't train with Knives and tear gas and do HALO jumps.

I got your points. All you were saying was that just because one style doesn't do what another style practices doesn't make it "whack". I don't think Dick Hardman got that. Aikido does offer its on unique and high level skills.

Also, you were correct about Aikido have sound principles and techniques. I agree. Its just watered down due to Ueshiba finding religion later on in his life. He was also a master of Aikijutsu, which is much more brutal than the softer and more noble-spirited Aikido.

I've been told by more than a few 10th dan jujitsuka that aikijutsu and some forms of aikido are the highest forms of jujitsu. They teach and practice mastery of balance and motion more than any other branch of jujitsu.

The reason that non-practitioners give it such a bad rap is because they don't stick around long enough to yield results. They want immediate results, and the time it takes to master aikijutsu and aikido's principles is considerably longer than most other non-internal arts.

[DickHardman]

I got your points. All you were saying was that just because one style doesn't do what another style practices doesn't make it "whack". I don't think Dick Hardman got that.

it was wack inmop. and thats why i stopped taking it. and thats only my opinion, which mr arieson didnt want to recognize cause he is so insecure about his own training. as i said everyone is into different stuff, if you are satisfied with your own training then thats all that matters. i wasnt satisfied with what i was learning. maybe the instructor wasnt a good one or something, who knows. but i had to find something that satisfied me.

Aikido does offer its on unique and high level skills.

yeah? so do other martial arts. some even more than others.

for example, aikido would require lots of training before you could even begin to use it. muay thai or boxing can be used almost immediately, cause even after a few lessons you will know how to punch much better than before. the sooner can learn to defend yourself the better inmop.