Ju-Jitsu

[jubaji]

Why would it hurt them more than you if grappling is not exactly your forte?

[kanik]

Why would it hurt them more than you if grappling is not exactly your forte?

Ever noticed how easy it is to headbutt or elbow (what to speak of other techniques) somone when your that close?

[jubaji]

Oh brother, not another one of those...

[kanik]

Oh brother, not another one of those...

Ah its a personal oppinion. Not everyone can be the same, otherwise where would the fun be? Besides. Shouldnt you be rejoicing? I mean, to you a striker is just another easy win eh? Hahaha

[jubaji]

You see, the difference is that I didn't say anything so foolish as that.

[kanik]

You see, the difference is that I didn't say anything so foolish as that.

Ah, i'm just one of those over confident guys. Thats all. You know? The kind that thinks he's unbeatable? Even after getting a fresh does of an ass-kicking? Hyahaha

[Ghost]

all the people that think headbutts +eye gouge = destroy every grappler, boxer and thai boxer out there because "they dont do it"
Is living in a fantasy world.

[kanik]

all the people that think headbutts +eye gouge = destroy every grappler, boxer and thai boxer out there because "they dont do it"
Is living in a fantasy world.

I never said that. Dont put words into my mouth. If theres one thing I hate, its when people put words into my mouth, and quite frankly ghost, I am starting to foster a deep dislike for you due to the afore-mentioned habit of yours.

[Ghost]

Ever noticed how easy it is to headbutt or elbow (what to speak of other techniques) somone when your that close?

^^there it is^^ its right there.

[jubaji]

I like where this thread is heading...

[kanik]

Ah well, Whatever.

[Ghost]

I like where this thread is heading...

I believe the correct phrase is "PWNED"

[Tant01]

Calling me what? BS!

Here's another misinforming lie.

Judo:

Judo is comprised of techniques that rely on unbalancing(kuzushi) and fulcrum based leverage. Judo PURPOSELY had the joint manipulation and therefore the momentum based techniques removed by Kano when he created his Kodokan syllabus so that people wouldn't fear getting injured while participating in randori.

Judo was NOT meant as system of true combat, and that's clear as the development of judo only came about once the Feudal era had ended. The need to perform techniques realistically came about and randori became the answer. All of the brutal and maiming techniques found throughout the various styles of jujitsu were REMOVED from Kano's judo.

"REAL" Kodokan Judo is a watered down version of a wartime art that was formulated without the intention of killing, but achieving the throw. Anybody worth their own judo gi knows this as the only real contribution that Kodokan Judo offered to the world was randori and a colored belt system.

"REAL" Kodokan Judo removed the bone crushing and snapping techniques found in other jujitsu arts like Daito Ryu. Look for blending techniques that use joint manipulation(wrist/ elbow/shoulder) and momentum for throws and you'll be looking for a lifetime. Those were the wartime applications of jujitsu based on the sword, not pajama wearing randori where you were basically assured that you wouldn't get hurt if you slapped out.

"REAL" Kodokan Judo before it became watered down in order to become an Olympic sport was so focused on newaza (due to Kano and his students getting dominated by a rival jujitsu school) that tachiwaza had been neglected for years in favor of ground fighting.


Newaza:

Kano wasn't even the first man to use the name judo to describe his art.

Kano wasn't the first man to make use of or widely introduce the concept of kuzushi.

Kano's judo isn't the source of newaza techniques. Only the poorly educated or short sighted cite Judo as the first to make use of or even perfect newaza.

The Fusen Ryu school of jujitsu specialized in newaza and challenged Kano and his school to a match. Kano's school handily defeated the Fusen Ryu school when using tachiwaza or standing and throwing techniques. So, the Fusen Ryu school switched to using newaza techniques mid-competition and beat every single member of Kano's school including Kano himself. Kano's students expressed a desire to learn newaza after that competition and so Kano invited Tanabe sensei, who was the head of the Fusen Ryu school, to teach newaza techniques which Kano eventually included in his original version of Kodokan judo. Kano eventually changed the curriculum to exclude newaza because he realized that his students began focusing on fighting on the ground because it was easy instead of where he felt the real skill lied: In achieving the throw.

Just because someone can steal something or make it famous doesn't make them innovative. And just because someone writes on a board that "Judo is everything that jujitsu was" doesn't make them knowledgeable, it just means that they, like usual, like to profess about things that they clearly don't know about.

Judo schools in America aren't the place to go looking for effective and complete self defense, Dan_The _Man. There's a lot to be learned there, but you don't go to the Metropolitan Opera to learn about dog fights in the alleyways. Its that plain and simple.

Traditional Kodokan Judo includes knee strikes, elbow blows, head butts, vital targets, disarming techniques, small joint manipulation, strangulation from every imaginable position, neck locks, leg locks, eye gouging, fish hooking, stomping, punching and kicking and even some traditional weapons NOT to mention the arsenal of throwing methods...

But don't take my word for anything. Go look!

And don't push me UKE. (I can ban you now)

[Uke]

If I'm banned from this site for replying to your nonsense with the same kind of hostility and pettiness that you harbor towards me and demonstrate nearly every time we interact .... then so be it. We all know you can ban me now ... once the circus let one employee go there was an opening. Besides, banning me would significantly reduce the posts here to what ..... 5 or 6 a week?


I give Ju-bark!-ji a reason to "...........

I give you a reason to vent and rant about the misinformation you possess.

And the articles I post give other members and mods a chance to voice their racism. They know who they are.

It all works out for everyone!

And as far as pushing you ... man up. If you think you can get snippy with me and cry when you get it right back then maybe you should consider another job to get your Defend merit badge. I rarely if ever initiate a hostility.

As as judo goes ....

I don't dispute that Kano's original version of judo had other elements than throwing. It was his work in progress, but that wasn't the point in contention. It NEVER contained all the elements that jujitsu did as Kano geared his training towards techniques that HE himself could perform. That was Kano's litmus test as to what techniques got adopted and included in his judo curriculum. Its well documented that there were many techniques found in jujitsu that Kano had difficulty executing do to his size and limited strength, which is why kuzushi and leverage became the cornerstone of his judo.

Not only that, but the brutal elements found in aikijujitsu were different than those found in Kano's judo. In fact, many so-called historians such as yourself often credit Kano for keeping jujitsu alive when Ueshiba was born 20 years later and learned several styles of jujitsu before studying daito ryu, which lead him to his developing aikido.

Kano's original judo, much like today's unstructured JKD can be anything. Anything he encountered he could call Judo if he liked it. He liked kendo at some point so I'm sure there's a branch that will claim sword fighting was a part of his original curriculum. Just because Kano learned atemi at his original jujitsu school as a distraction or "shock" doesn't mean that he was proficient at striking, nor does it mean that he was proficient at using aiki in any of his techniques.

One must keep in mind that judo had become so popular at one point that almost every empty hand japanese art with maybe the exception of karate was lumped in to being judo. That especially being the case in America.

I don't need to push you to teach you, McDonald.

[Uke]

all the people that think headbutts +eye gouge = destroy every grappler, boxer and thai boxer out there because "they dont do it"
Is living in a fantasy world.

Anyone who thinks that any one thing is a guaranteed trump card of game changer is living in a fantasy world.

I do believe what Kanik was saying is that self defense doesn't limit you in the way that rule based sport competition does. There is no such thing as combat thai boxing, combat boxing or combat BJJ.

Furthermore, go to any credible rape prevention school/seminar and you'll notice that they aren't teaching women(who IMO are the real examples as to whether a technique will work for anybody) to thai box, box or use BJJ ...although they use specific elements from each(punches, knees, escapes from being mounted). They are taught short, sharp and fast techniques from all systems that smaller, less strong individuals can use to defend themselves, but mostly they are taught extreme aggression and intent.

Dr Ruthless immediately comes to mind. She's was probably the biggest proponent of women's self defense in America before she got hurt, and you won't see her teaching women to play in the guard, or boxing/muay thai to keep distance. Those scenarios don't end well. Women don't hit that hard for those methods to be effective against men, and quite frankly neither do most men once they find themselves up against someone who can and is willing to fight and hurt them.

Once you start looking towards boxing/muay thai/bjj as methods of self defense you are FORCED to factor in weight and height. Average women is between 5'1 - 5'4. Average man is between 5'7 - 5'10. World Champion Lucia Rijker thought that because she had easily dominated so many women in Women's kickboxing and boxing that she could do the same to a man who was relatively her size. In the second round against that man she was kicked one time and knocked out. She was out cold for several minutes and had to be revived. The best women boxer/kickboxer in the world, Lucia Rijker, didn't even stand a chance against a man her size who was also good but hardly the best.

I also understand what Kanik meant when he said SD is boring as it lacks any flare, flash or flamboyance that competition based sport arts may offer. SD is supposed to be that way ... blan, cold, colorless ... but regardless I do understand where he's coming from. Some people want the thrill of winning without risking their life or serious injury. So competition is the path for them. Some people want to get as close as they can to the pain and injury one might find in the street, so we have people like the Dog Brothers, but even they only come as close as a full contact extreme sport where each fighter knows that he'll be going home alive with at most a broken bone, contusion or a laceration.

The reason that most reputable don't "play" or spar is because we've found that you can't follow through with SD techniques unless the opponent is heavily padded. No one wants to develop a bad habit of "pulling punches", so unless you get to go full out you don't go at all.

Thank God for the redman suit!