Togakure-ryu Ninjutsu

[Laura]

Is this art for real or is Ninjutsu more fiction as a style than anything else? If it's legit, how effective is it as a fighting art?

[Laura]

Thank you for the reply. There's actually a school in Boston, and I've been interested in it for years, but I know nothing really about the style. If I'm able to get a job soon in town, God willing, I'll check it out. Thank you again for the response.

[stauburn]

Yes Laura , it is a real a legit art. But please as with any art or school please do you research and ask questions no matter how dumb they may sound. Stick to researching Bujinkan, Jinenkan or Genbukan, which are the ninjutsu schools with traceable lineages. Make sure you ask if the teachers regularly make the effort to train with the Grandmaster of their school to remain updated on the current training. If any questions please email me.

[tenzen]

just to clear things up for you a bit here, no style of ninjutsu has a traceable lineage not even this one. also the fighting of this style is weapons only. there is no hand to hand in ninjutsu what so ever. tai jutsu is an umbrella term like karate that can be used for a number of martial arts. also the hand to hand that you will learn there is based on various forms of jujutsu and yes they are effective. but no one can say for sure and be 100% accurate when it comes to ninjutsu. this is mostly due to the many self proclaimed last living grand masters. they are all full of shit. my teacher was ninty three the last time i saw him and could still fight functionally. not what you would expect to see from someone his age. also he never once said anything about being the last grandmaster. my style has been mentioned through out history yet is not recognized due to the fact that there are no existing scrolls from this school. but hey we are ninjas that couyld have gotten us killed. but in regards to the school you were talking about it is headed by masaaki hatsumi and his teacher created it from a childhood ninja game. not real ninjutsu. ninjutsu is not a bunch of techniques but a way to view the way we move. ie it is a school of thought, that when put in to practice is very devestating to your opponent. but what you will learn there should not be discredited because the other arts involved in the school are very real and they do work well when used right. for this i would go with the jinenkan. if you want the historical versions of these schools or to study them individually go to genbukan. now both of these came from the bujinkan but it has involved into its own martial art and just uses the feel of the individual arts not actually their techniques. hope this helps. you can pm me if you want more info on ninjutsu.

[stauburn]

[Qt in regards to the school you were talking about it is headed by masaaki hatsumi and his teacher created it from a childhood ninja game. not real ninjutsu. ninjutsu is not a bunch of techniques but a way to view the way we move. ie it is a school of thought, that when put in to practice is very devestating to your opponent. but what you will learn there should not be discredited because the other arts involved in the school are very real and they do work well when used right. for this i would go with the jinenkan. if you want the historical versions of these schools or to study them individually go to genbukan. now both of these came from the bujinkan but it has involved into its own martial art and just uses the feel of the individual arts not actually their techniques. hope this helps. you can pm me if you want more info on ninjutsu.[/QUOTE]

Have you studied in ninjutsu? If so, which organization and how long?

Your statement make no sense ...
First of all Genbukan and Jinenkan did not come from Bujinkan. These are simply names of organizations that were chosen by the head of each school.

Hatsumi, Tanemura & Manaka all studied under Takamatsu when he was alive. Hatsumi was chosen to be Soke.They all teach the same ryu-ha with some degree of variation depending on that persons understanding of the kata. I can say this because I have friends that train in Jinenkan & Genbukan.

Basically the Bujinkan tends to be less formal in their teaching style whereas Jinenkan & Genbukan tend to be more formal in their style of teaching. Genbukan does also teach jujutsu and Karate within their organization. Jinenkan focuses on the study of the individual ryu-ha.

As a side comment, one cannot just use the "feel" of an martial art without thoroughly studying ,understanding and practicing the techniques...that would be like wanting to start jamming in a band without knowing how to play a chord of music

[Tant01]

Yup...

...that would be like wanting to start jamming in a band without knowing how to play a chord of music

.................

I have always been interested in Japanese arts (including ninjutsu) but I tend to agree with tenzen about some traceable lineage to a particular ruy-ha. There were very few alive before WW2 that had anything like a "scroll" or certificate and where were the ninjas back in the 1880's when Kano whupped all the best jujutsu ryu ha? LOL Hiding in the shadows no doubt... still playing with antiquated (ie obsolete) weapons?

Seriously... is there really such a thing. Modern interpretations are little more than roll playing if you ask me?

Nothing wrong with dressing up in a costume and pretending to kill stuff...

Sadly there are zealots who insist it's "real".... To each his/her own I suppose?

Knock yourself out!

[tenzen]

to answer your questions i have trained for twenty years in the mochizuki ryu. dabbled (shodan) in the mainstream "ninjutsu" for a bit but it is no longer combat oriented. the mochizuki school however is very combative and there is no performance to it at all. i don't like to get involved with the politics so lets not go down that path. and yes they came from the bujinkan. tanemura was hatsumis student and so was manaka. in fact takamatsu was no longer training when the fourteen year old manaka started training with hatsumi. you go to the genbukan if you want to specialize in one of tanemuras 22 ryu ha. or the jinenkan for a strong foundation. they all still have combative elements to them as with any martial art but ninjutsu has flaws just like every art. and just for the record mostly what is taught at these scools is jujutsu not ninjutsu. reall ninjutsu has not been shown to the masses of the world hatsumis togakure is made up bottom line and he wont show the two real ninjutsu styles he supposedly knows because a he really doesn't know them or b he cant because he will be killed. i know it sound funny but those arts are in current use by the yakuza and teaching them could mean his death. also he learned these from takahashi ueno who was a student of takamatsu and seiko fujita. for the fujita fans out there. ueno introduced takamatsu and hatsumi. also ueno passed on gikan ryu to tanemura hatsumi is not soke. wait that might have been sato kinbei. memory fails me at the moment. but to laura yes the bujinkan would be a good place for you to study just stay out of the politics and train. it will pay off, as any training will.

[Laura]

Still waiting to hear about a job, but this is the school I plan to visit for their classes:

Boston Martial Arts Center : Boston's Self Defense Classes : 617-789-5524

[tenzen]

you will get great training there. the guy is under stephen k. hayes who although it is not ninjutsu knows his stuff. he puts it all into a realworld perspective and is a very dedicated teacher. this school would be great but like i said stay out of the politics and train. it is odd that they are considered a bujinkan school and not toshindo as he still actively works with steve. the older steve hayes students are mostly still with hatsumi for their own reasons but to each his own. good luck on the job and the training laura.

[Laura]

Thank you everyone for the feedback, you've all been helpful.

[tenzen]

you are welcome laura any more questions you can pm me.

[stauburn]

Laura

I had sent you an email a while back when you pm'ed me but it came back to me as undeliverable to your email address.

Tenzen, you must define to me what "real Ninjutsu" is because every has there own definition of an art that most but always seem to admit that no one teaches " real ninjutsu" ..... As well as " combat oriented" a term that everyone seems to throw around when they try to discredit a non sport martial art. You also lost me on the whole, Hatsumi will get killed if he teaches " real ninjutsu" by the yakuza but I will ask Soke himself when I go to Japan in a couple of weeks.

I am interested in reading more on the style that you study because I never heard of it, can you please post some links that you recommend?


I admit my error about Manaka & Tamemura, Hatsumi took them to meet Takamatsu.


Good training to you

[tenzen]

rob
i think i was not clear what i was saying is that the two ninjutsu ryu ha (kumogakure and gyokushin) are used by the yakuza. for this reason he cannot teach them as it will cause problems with that community could get him killed not will. chances are it wouldn't play out like that. i was not refering to sporting arts i meant real fighting and can be used against the sport arts very effectively. in my system there is alot of attacks to the skeletal structure and the muscles. most movement is straight in or at an angle but no backwards movement. striking is done very hard with 90 and 45 degree angles to the bone you are attacking, muscles are attacked first so the bone has no protection. sadly this art is facing what most others fom the old times have. it is pretty much gone. my instructor and his son both deceased god bless them, were the only ones i know of that have practiced this art. i have tried to find more and could not. this is not to say there aren't any though. i just haven't found them. to me real ninjutsu is functional use of all aspects of the ninja related arts. not just taijutsu. i tend to stay out of the politics so don't think i was trying to discredit the bujinkan or its offshoots. just simply stating that what is taught is jujutsu with a few ninjutsu aspects but for the most part it is jujutsu. wasn't trying to take anything from the organization so please don't feel that way i appologize if it seems i was doing so. i love ninjutsu and hate what is happening in that circle also since i was not around during the feudal era i give everyone the benefit of the doubt, aside from those levetating ninja grandmasters who are round eyed and live in texas and florida. we all know who they are so nammes need not be mentioned.

[stauburn]

That's cool...

At least you are straight up about your points of view and I respect that a great deal.

Good luck in finding the training you are looking for.

I am curious about the levitating ninjas in Texas, please PM me on who is floating around for you....we maybe thinking of the same people, HAHAHA

[tenzen]

stauburn i just pm ed you i am sure we are on the same page here. these guys man i tell ya what clowns.