Togakure-ryu Ninjutsu

[tenzen]

well i did not attack you trying to prove the validity of what i do. matter of fact i didn't do that to anyone. still not sure what you want, a telephone conference with my family or something. it is very hard to prove things over a computer don't ya think. my training from him was at the request of my grandfather who was a close friend of his. really without you comming and testing my abilities you have no way to know what i know. what you want a certificate of training that could have been printed up by any idiot on the net. be more clear. if you dont want to put forth the effort to come see me then we need not be having this conversation, it will go back and forth like this forever. you say one thing i rebute and it keeps going. no progress. my skills are in my ability not in whatever it is that you are prying for. so i say to you until you find yourself in the olympia lacey tacoma area of washington let this go its pointless. but if you are in the area at anytime pm me and i will be glad to invite you to come and train with me.

[Darth Roley]

also im not sure what you would like for me to prove my training.

Oh, it is not difficult. If you say that you trained with someone in ninjutsu for 20 years there would be some sort of proof. I think anyone here who thinks about their own personal training would understand that if they had to prove what personally happened to them over a 20 year old experience they could do so easily and not give excuses.

What I have run into time and time again with frauds is that they just can't seem to do that. None of their friends from high school seem to have met the mysterious old man they say trained them, their parents never knew they were training, etc. Most often, the frauds attack me and make excuses. They say they don't care enough to try to prove anything (but they argue for hours) or some other form of excuse.

But they can never, ever prove that the training they said happened to them is a fact and not just another story.

[tenzen]

not defensive. you have to understand i get alot of flack because what i practice is not from hatsumi's line. also im not sure what you would like for me to prove my training. since you seem to think i have so little knowledge please enlighten me. keep in mind i was trying to help her with a question that was not being answered and yes my knowledge of the x-kans is very limited i do not train in them any longer. and only did for a brief period as was stated in an earlier post. not sure what your purpose here is but i am dying to find out. since you buj guys are so quick to attack what is different. once again how am i supposed to prove this to you? the only thing i can think of is if we meet. other than that i dont see how i can help you.

[Darth Roley]

ok man whatever you say. im not here for the politics. you must be from the buj. you do not know me therefore you do not know the person i am. i have trained hard and put forth alot of effort in what i do, i did not come on here attacking anyone nor did i come here saying that i had some new revolutionary system. clearly i expressed on the other forum that this is not a koryu. you have the right to your own opinion and all that but it does not change my training.

My how defensive you are!

I don't mind you posting here, but if you want to be looked at as someone with 20 years experience, it is only natural that you should back that up with facts. Since you don't want to, then it is only natural that you be treated as such.

As it is, your level of knowledge seems to be about the level of someone who has read a little bit on the internet and really did not understand the subject matter.

If I come to think of you as an honest person, I will take great pleasure in helping you to overcome the many mistakes you have made here and elsewhere. My teachers made it clear that I have a responsibility to help people with little knowledge such as yourself in return for the lessons they gave me.

[tenzen]

ok man whatever you say. im not here for the politics. you must be from the buj. you do not know me therefore you do not know the person i am. i have trained hard and put forth alot of effort in what i do, i did not come on here attacking anyone nor did i come here saying that i had some new revolutionary system. clearly i expressed on the other forum that this is not a koryu. you have the right to your own opinion and all that but it does not change my training.

[Darth Roley]

darth i use the computer at work so i do not have alot of time. shoot over to martial talk and look at the thread hatsumi and koga ryu, my credentials were discussed on there with some other folks. hope that helps you man.

Discussed, but never proven. Someone who trained for 20 years under someone should be able to prove that, even if they were not teaching in a commercial dojo. Combined with the fact that you don't seem to know much about the subject matter, I pretty much know what type of person you are.

[tenzen]

good for you laura. darth i use the computer at work so i do not have alot of time. shoot over to martial talk and look at the thread hatsumi and koga ryu, my credentials were discussed on there with some other folks. hope that helps you man.

those were pretty harsh words saying that im a fraud because of you not knowing who my teacher is. he was not a commercial type of person and did not have what you would calll a formal dojo. but its cool. there is so much that cannot be trusted in the ma world.

[Laura]

Well, I GOT THE JOB!!!! I'll be checking that place out soon. I had knee surgery on the 22nd of last month to realign the knee (common among women according to the doctor), so it's going to be a while yet till I can rejoin any martial arts classes, including my current ones, but at least I'll be in the area at the end of the month. Sweet!!!!

[Darth Roley]

As you were... (so to type) Try to relax and enjoy the intra personal experience of corresponding with other individuals who have interest in the subject at hand?

Or not? Self appointed "troll" patrol ? I'm sorry you feel so adamant about your experiences in the arts.

Take a seat, grab some pop corn and get to know some folks?

Fair enough response.

I just happen to take the stand that if someone makes their experience the qualifications for their statements, then that is open to scrutiny. If they choose to ignore calls to back up what they say happened personally to them then they can't complain when people treat them as if they were lying.

Things are much better when folks just stick to facts they can back up instead of putting themselves up as a source.

[Tant01]

Or not?

Hey, if you trained that long you would be able to prove that your teacher actually existed AND that he taught you what you say he did. That is not very hard for someone who has trained for twenty years as you claim.

Otherwise, this is exactly the type of situation I talk about in my blog on martial arts frauds.

Quite simply put, if you find some excuse to try to wiggle out of proving something that happened to you personally over 20 years we are quite justified in treating you as a fraud and not take anything you say at face value.

If you are indeed a fraud, I can expect you to talk about respect for other martial artists or a number of other excuses. But anyone who has trained with someone for 20 years would be able and quite willing to provide proof. I can provide proof for my training and am quite willing to point to people who will verify what I say about what I say.

I do not expect you to be able to back up even as simple a fact as the existence of your teacher and such, but I hope I am wrong. The ball is in your court and it is up to you to prove that we should take your word instead of treating you like just another fraud.

As you were... (so to type) Try to relax and enjoy the intra personal experience of corresponding with other individuals who have interest in the subject at hand?

Or not? Self appointed "troll" patrol ? I'm sorry you feel so adamant about your experiences in the arts.

Take a seat, grab some pop corn and get to know some folks?

[Darth Roley]

to answer your questions i have trained for twenty years in the mochizuki ryu.

Hey, if you trained that long you would be able to prove that your teacher actually existed AND that he taught you what you say he did. That is not very hard for someone who has trained for twenty years as you claim.

Otherwise, this is exactly the type of situation I talk about in my blog on martial arts frauds.

Quite simply put, if you find some excuse to try to wiggle out of proving something that happened to you personally over 20 years we are quite justified in treating you as a fraud and not take anything you say at face value.

If you are indeed a fraud, I can expect you to talk about respect for other martial artists or a number of other excuses. But anyone who has trained with someone for 20 years would be able and quite willing to provide proof. I can provide proof for my training and am quite willing to point to people who will verify what I say about what I say.

I do not expect you to be able to back up even as simple a fact as the existence of your teacher and such, but I hope I am wrong. The ball is in your court and it is up to you to prove that we should take your word instead of treating you like just another fraud.

[tenzen]

stauburn i just pm ed you i am sure we are on the same page here. these guys man i tell ya what clowns.

[stauburn]

That's cool...

At least you are straight up about your points of view and I respect that a great deal.

Good luck in finding the training you are looking for.

I am curious about the levitating ninjas in Texas, please PM me on who is floating around for you....we maybe thinking of the same people, HAHAHA

[tenzen]

rob
i think i was not clear what i was saying is that the two ninjutsu ryu ha (kumogakure and gyokushin) are used by the yakuza. for this reason he cannot teach them as it will cause problems with that community could get him killed not will. chances are it wouldn't play out like that. i was not refering to sporting arts i meant real fighting and can be used against the sport arts very effectively. in my system there is alot of attacks to the skeletal structure and the muscles. most movement is straight in or at an angle but no backwards movement. striking is done very hard with 90 and 45 degree angles to the bone you are attacking, muscles are attacked first so the bone has no protection. sadly this art is facing what most others fom the old times have. it is pretty much gone. my instructor and his son both deceased god bless them, were the only ones i know of that have practiced this art. i have tried to find more and could not. this is not to say there aren't any though. i just haven't found them. to me real ninjutsu is functional use of all aspects of the ninja related arts. not just taijutsu. i tend to stay out of the politics so don't think i was trying to discredit the bujinkan or its offshoots. just simply stating that what is taught is jujutsu with a few ninjutsu aspects but for the most part it is jujutsu. wasn't trying to take anything from the organization so please don't feel that way i appologize if it seems i was doing so. i love ninjutsu and hate what is happening in that circle also since i was not around during the feudal era i give everyone the benefit of the doubt, aside from those levetating ninja grandmasters who are round eyed and live in texas and florida. we all know who they are so nammes need not be mentioned.

[stauburn]

Laura

I had sent you an email a while back when you pm'ed me but it came back to me as undeliverable to your email address.

Tenzen, you must define to me what "real Ninjutsu" is because every has there own definition of an art that most but always seem to admit that no one teaches " real ninjutsu" ..... As well as " combat oriented" a term that everyone seems to throw around when they try to discredit a non sport martial art. You also lost me on the whole, Hatsumi will get killed if he teaches " real ninjutsu" by the yakuza but I will ask Soke himself when I go to Japan in a couple of weeks.

I am interested in reading more on the style that you study because I never heard of it, can you please post some links that you recommend?


I admit my error about Manaka & Tamemura, Hatsumi took them to meet Takamatsu.


Good training to you