MT:What is that group claiming to be Christian ninja?

[Knowledge Bot]

What is that group claiming to be Christian ninja? By Hudson69 - 06-11-2009 11:33 AM

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Does anyone here know what I am talking about. I saw a website about this a couple of years ago but never looked into their background to see what kind of lineage they promoted to have; are they legit, yes, no or maybe?


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MartialTalk.com Post Bot - Ninjitsu Feed

[tenzen]

could be the robert bussey group those guys are christians. other than that im not sure. rb is a student of masaaki hatsumi and was with steve hayes one of the first to bring their version to america.

[Darth Roley]

What is that group claiming to be Christian ninja? By Hudson69 - 06-11-2009 11:33 AM

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Does anyone here know what I am talking about. I saw a website about this a couple of years ago but never looked into their background to see what kind of lineage they promoted to have; are they legit, yes, no or maybe?


Read More ... or click reply below.
------------------------------
MartialTalk.com Post Bot - Ninjitsu Feed

The group you are thinking of is Konigun. They recently had a huge defection of senior people leaving them stating quite openly that they not only thought that the art was not historical, but that the head of the art was lying about his personal training and experience and was making things up.

People that refuse to back up their own claims for their own personal training do not need to be treated as anything other than frauds. Take that to heart. People might be fooled by others, but if they get hinky about backing up what they said happened to them over the years it takes to be able to teach an art, they are not worthy of being thought of as anything other than a fraud.

[jonbey]

Seems very strange. The Christians that I know steer clear of anything Eastern (tai chi, yoga etc). I would have thought that an authentic Ninjitsu system would have some element of Buddhism in its teachings - that was who invented it wasn't it?

[Darth Roley]

Seems very strange. The Christians that I know steer clear of anything Eastern (tai chi, yoga etc). I would have thought that an authentic Ninjitsu system would have some element of Buddhism in its teachings - that was who invented it wasn't it?

Did I mention that the American who claimed to be teaching this was a B.S. artist?

You are right in thinking that a Japanese art like ninjutsu would be based on a Japanese outlook toward religion, which usually has a blend of Shinto and Buddhism. But from what I have heard from people who fled the various forms of abuse they received in the Konigun, the area that the head teacher operates in is heavily Christian. So to attract more converts, he made up a story of it coming from Christianity.

That is the advantage B.S. artists have over honest folks- they can tailor their stories for what people want to hear instead of being limited by ethics and the truth.

[jonbey]

It is amazing what people will believe.

[tenzen]

i think this guy had sued some people for mentioning his name and the name of his art, and won. kinda scarry, but definately a b***h move. watch out for what is said about this group they will sue you. i think they sued bullshido. but im not sure on that.

[Darth Roley]

i think this guy had sued some people for mentioning his name and the name of his art, and won.

No. He tried to sue people that left the art and told about the abuse and stuff that went on. The case got tossed out. He tried again and told one person that he would keep coming after them with case after case until they gave in no matter how many times he lost.

It just goes to show, if someone claims to have been taught by a teacher and refuses to prove even that, they are probably not quite right in the head and should be avoided.

[jonbey]

This reminds me of something that my instructor told me years ago. One day he had, from America (we are in the UK) an order for all the instructional videos on his style, plus about 40 T-shirts. Now, maybe this was someone who was well trained in the art, and just wanted to review the videos before opening a club after a long break. Then again, maybe it was another BSartist.

[Darth Roley]

This reminds me of something that my instructor told me years ago. One day he had, from America (we are in the UK) an order for all the instructional videos on his style, plus about 40 T-shirts. Now, maybe this was someone who was well trained in the art, and just wanted to review the videos before opening a club after a long break. Then again, maybe it was another BSartist.

Now days you don't need to order videos, you just go to youtube, try to piece together some stuff and pass it off as a 1000 year old tradition. And you can fool quite a few folks doing that as well. The stories on the internet and such have been a big help for frauds trying to make their stories sound legitimate. It takes a bit of experience in the real stuff to be able to tell the real story.

In the case of the Konigun, they actually went to Japan, found some guy at a theme park and had him wear a robe with their symbol on it (over his regular clothes!) and tried to pass him off as their mysterious teacher.

I have seen a lot of frauds over the years and they all seem to be a little nuts. It is kind of like a chicken and egg question. Did they make up their story about being trained by a little old man since they were seven because they had a few screws loose or did the stress of living a lie for years drive them over the edge?

In either case, I can't think of a single fraud that had any real ability or was fully sane. Best to stay away from folks that seem to be lying no matter how good their abilities seem. The Konigun story is a good example of what happens in groups headed by people that lie.