What is exactly ninjitsu???

[IPON]

LOL - Ninja Poison!!

RG - I agree I always thought Hwa Rang was a modern art I never thought that it was an extension of the original techniques of the Hwa Rang. The reason for Martial arts ending in kaorea was during the renessance or "period of enlightement" is that correct....I may be confusing countries now...I need sleep.

Anyway thanks for the insight.

[grubbogoppoly]

Very interesting point hoplite. . . .
"Spirituality entails values that exit independent of the practitioner, and these spiritual values extend beyond the martial arts to influence all aspects of life.

If the practice of a martial art requires training for action contrary to a practitioner’s spiritual values, and the practitioner does not reconcile the contradiction between belief and practice, then the practitioner is compromising their spiritual values.

Also, if a practitioner reconciles a contradiction between their spiritual values and martial practice by reducing the efficacy of their martial art, then the practitioner is compromising their martial ability.

Thus if a style or instructor claims the special importance of spirituality to their martial art, then it is possible their spiritual values or their martial ability has been compromised."

First of all I agree that values exist without the practitioner and do effect all aspects of life as you say. However, I believe spirituality as being the understanding of those values and ethics as well.
So yes. If someone has contradictions between their spirituality and their martial art then this is obviously a bad thing. If your values are contradicting with a martial art then why would you take this art?

Forgive me if I am not quite picking it up(3 hours of sleep in 2 days cause of sickness gets to you). But I fail to see the connection between the fact that someone is spiritual MAKING their martial skills deteriorate. Yes, for some this might be true. But does that make an art flawed or less effective?

For instance, someone who happens to be kind in nature. Can they train to build up a "killer instinct"? Maybe, maybe not. Can they make the decision that if someone makes an attemp at their life, as to what they will do(ie in a situatiion where it is kill or be killed)? Think about whether they would be able to live with the consequences of taking a life or if they would be able to even live with taking a life. All very hard questions. But, if you know what you HAVE to do then you will be ahead of most people that find themselves in this situation. If they choose that they couldn't kill the person does that mean that their art failed? No, they did what they needed to do(in fact they preserved another life). Now I am just rambling so I will shut up now. lol

Oh yes, and the other random thought that came to mind when I was reading this was that martial arts aren't all about self defense(reason for the ART in the name). So what is art? I would call it the purest form of human emotion(very closely related to spirituality). Damn it I'm rambling again!!

[grubbogoppoly]

"Grubby is just bitter he's been paying twice as much as any other practioner of Hapkido for several years because they called it Hwarang Do and promised him he could levitate shit and turn invisible with his Sulsa powers."

Bitter? I don't waste my time with something like that. Everything I do is because I feel it is right. I don't need some guy on a web site to tell me what and what isn't right. I respect all peoples opinions and let them have them, as long as they state them as just that OPINION. In addition, not shoving it down anyones throat who happens to be around.

As to this last part "they called it Hwarang Do and promised him he could levitate shit and turn invisible with his Sulsa powers."

I don't even have to respond to that. That just proves your ignorance once more.

"most people will admit that indigeneous Korean martial arts were pratically extinct, perhaps even prior to Japanese occupation"

So who are these people. .All of your so called facts seem to simply be your opinions fluffed up to sound like fact(ie. I believe it, so most people will admit. If most people will admit, it is just because they don't want to hear your shit anymore). If this you say is fact, then lets have some resources. .

[Thai Bri]

Yeah! Yeah!

Grubby doesn't have to respond to you, or waste his time with this! No Sir!

That's why he has. The Dim Wit.

[arsen]

https://www.realultimatepower.net

That will give you all the ninja proof you need, I myself am a ninja, i run around at night with my teenage mutant ninja turtle underoos and a ski mask, I go on secret missions to the dragon's Layer and the unicorn meadow.

[grubbogoppoly]

Bri. .
"Yeah! Yeah!

Grubby doesn't have to respond to you, or waste his time with this! No Sir!

That's why he has. The Dim Wit."

I will quote myself again:
"As to this last part "they called it Hwarang Do and promised him he could levitate shit and turn invisible with his Sulsa powers."

I don't even have to respond to that. That just proves your ignorance once more."

The dim wit bri can't read. .As I said before I wouldn't respond to that last part and I didn't:P.

[grubbogoppoly]

Funny site arson.

[Thai Bri]

You didn't respond to it by responding to it?

Duuuurrrrrrr........

[grubbogoppoly]

This is getting ridiculous. You are arguing over whether or not I responded. You obviously have nothing of value to say. .

[Thai Bri]

You say you have nothing and then say something. Nothing? Something?

Karma?

[takamatsu]

ninjutsu

hi!
Im must tell that almoust all dont know anithing about ninjutsu.
All web site that is writen in this forum on ninjas is lie and they are fanatic and dont know anithing on ninjutsu.
On one site is seying that seppuku is the art of killing yourself that ninjas was do seppuku is nothing expect lie.Samurai was make seppuku if the hawe no more onor.
Bellow i will wrote some tru of ninjutsu and i will wrote web site if you wont to go and read something more:

http://bujinkan.hr

People don't know very much about the art itself. First case of mentioning ninjutsu was in the year of 520.
In time when Shoguns (military rulers of Japan) ruled, Japan was divided in dosens of provinces, which was ruled by daimyos, military comanders. Wars between this daimyos were very often. Their armies fought one another, and many warriors - samurais died in those battles. For a samurai, to die while fighting for his lord was in fact one of the greatest honours, beacuse that's what their code Bushido, The Warrior's Path, ordered them to do. But for the special purposes, daimyos used ninja warriors, beacuse they weren't limited with the Bushido code like the samurais.
Ninjas worked on a special missions, like for example espionage, all kinds of diversions, sabotages, assasinations of enemy commanders, etc. Their code was to complete the task given to them, by any means.

In Kamakura period of Japanese history, many people took refuge in the mountains of Iga and Koga region, leaving the Bushi (Warrior cast), and continued to live in those mountains as jizamurais (warrior living as peasants), and were procecuted by the official government, beacuse of that. In order to protect themselves, they were forced to develope warrior arts with minimum of tools and equipment, because weapons were allowed only to members of Bushicast, who were in Shogun's service.
Somewhere about 794. - 1192. ninjutsu started to develope in the art that we know today. Some Chinese warriors, priests and teachers, who were wandering across the wilderness of Japan, were especially important for ninjutsu.
Gamon, Garyu, Kain, Unryu and generals of T'ang dynasty, Cho Gyoko, Ikai i Cho Busho brought with them knowledge accumulated in Imperial China, Tibet, South Asia and Eastern Europe, for example military strategies, religion philosophy, folk-custom, cultural concept, medicine, and they all find their place in the process of ninjutsu's development.
The crucial point for development of ninjutsu was melding of ninja techniques with techniques of soundless moving and disappearing, and their meeting with the powerfull, warrior-oriented organization of yamabushi, mountain priests-warriors. Yamabushi were a sect who was procecuted by the imperial army, and they practised shugendo, religion rituals mixed with ascetism and magic.
Ninjutsu art of fighting was strictly guarded secret, and it was passed on from a father to son, or from a teacher to his best student; and if teacher didn't have an inheritor, the school vanished. The most famous and strongest families were located in Iga and Koga (today Mie and Shiga) areas of Japan.

http://bujinkan.hr

[jules]

The reason for Martial arts ending in kaorea was during the renessance or "period of enlightement" is that correct....I may be confusing countries now...I need sleep.

the reson for martial arts ending in korea was because the japanse government banned anything "korean" during the occupation. They banned speaking korean in schools, banned alot of the traditional arts and also banned "korean" martial arts.

[Iwakawa Arimasa]

I have only just read this entire set of posts and must say that as a historical recreationist who does a japanese persona during that Kamakura period that the only one who posted anything resembling truth is Takamatsu. Most of you have severly ignorant ideas concerning the uses of the ninja. A samurai would never assassinate anyone. To do so would be seen as dishonorable. Only someone who was trained specifically for such a job could do so without losing honor. And a ninja was not a master fighter as many believe. Ninja's were masters of deception and hiding. They weren't recluses by any means. They were very sociable and amiable people who could move well in nearly any level of society. They hid in plain view by acting the part of the caste around them. The tools they used were normally second rate as they wouldn't have a makers mark on them. As such if something happened none of their equipment could be identified.
I do agree that the running around in black pajamas is a rather stupid idea. If anything they would have had clothing to appear members of the same caste or group as those around them. I'm not saying I'm an expert by any means with this post but I will tell you that the information I'm using has been documented by several scholars that work in the libraries that RobertG talks about.

[jubei__kun]

I too have read this entire post (phew!)

and alot of you have posted some very interesting ideas in reagards to the existance of ninjutsu.
Through from my experience as a former practitioner of ninjutsu and having a general hobby of researching the history and origins of martial arts.
I would whole- heartedly agree with takamatsu and Iwakawa Arimasa's statement of the subject.
Though it must be said there are alot of uncertainties in regards to the general history of ninjutsu, due to the age of the art and more importantly its isolation from the rest of japan, then the subsequent near destruction of the art by the tokugawa shogunate. This near destruction also unfortunately caused many schools of ninjutsu to be lost as much knoledge was lost during this time. To my knowlege only 9 schools remain, still a fair bit.... but know where near what the art was during the waring states period.
I would also argue that the only reamaing lineage that can be assosiated with ninjutsu is that of Hatsumi Masaaki soke and the assosiation of Bujinkan.
Though this i also feel i must mention, i having studied this art form for 2yrs realise their are no people who i consider who could use this art at the level it was used before. What i mean is that no1 trains enough even hatsumi masaaki's school does not train more than 6hrs a day 6 days a week. In the past the ninja vilages would raise children from birth using games to influence the child's martial development. This subsequently made ninjas among the best fighters in the world, there r stories present in boths shaolin and ninjutsu of ninjas comeing to china to have friendly matches with monks and exchange and discuss new ideas about martial arts.Thanks to modern demands though there is no1 who undertakes this dedication to training. I am not saying that no1 can use it any more, i am well aware they can for self defence and such but i dont expect a practitioner of bujinkan ninjutsu to win against a talanted muay thai fighter as an example. Though having said this i still regard Taijutsu and bojutsu having studied these forms quite a bit i realise they r works of genius and if some1 cud effectively use them would be near undefeatable.....only probem is no1 can...theory still exists though (as the scrolls of the 9 scools remain) so technically if some1 trained hard enough they cud still use it.
Reason i stated this in so much detail is because ninjutsu used to be one of the best arts in the world, problem is u can have the best martial art in the world but if theres no1 good enough to use it effectively the martial art is not the best anymore.

Generally i believe the last true ninja to be Takumatsu sensei. Though i still have much respect for hatsumi masaaki and his teachings.

1 thing is for certain however ninjutsu did exist.

back to the original topic though if u wanna learn more about ninjutsu by a book written by Hatsumi Masaaki.

[KARATEMAN]

If you were to take ninjutsu you in class would learn either or both evassive techniques throwing shurikensand some other weapons traing like the sword or taijutsu the unarmed ninja combat which resembles karate