What's the "Shredder"?

[Thai Bri]

It is still only part of your overall arsenal. You still benefit the striking and grappling. It never pretends to be a complete system in itself. You can enter, yes. Or you can use it when HE enters. It is as useful as a hammer to a carpenter. But you still need the saw and the nails......

[Ryu (JKD?)]

well

Thanks for your reply Ryu. So basically, if you squared off against someone, you would have to enter normally before using the shredder. Would you still enter using RAT or does Dmitri have a better way of entering? I like RAT, I think that the only time I would use something different in a fight would be to just take him to the ground if I thought I had a clear and easy entry and takedown. Also, it seems as though it would be very difficult for someone to go on the offensive against you after you have intercepted/destroyed, straight blasted, and then began the HKE assault. Would you agree?

Sure, I'd agree. The RAT system works well, don't get me wrong.
Just that I've noticed that while straightblasting, HKE'ing, your opponent (while still on the defensive) has time between each tool landing to try and regroup and counter. The shred takes that time away and leaves absolutely none for the opponent to go offensive.
So both absolutely put the guy on the defensive. I feel the shred has a better ratio in doing so, however.

And yes, you need to enter with whatever skills and delivery system you already own. I personally will usually use interceptions and the basic MMA clinching skills.

The shred though is phychologically based. That means that that your "entry" can be your opponent's willingness to get into your face in a real altercation. You launch it from a passive stance (if need be) and in this particular situation your entry will be your de-escalation tactics, semantics, and body language.

Hope that helps,
Ryu

[one sword]

Look, this stuff is just clawing and raking and gouging deployed through standing clinch/trap/grapple methods. This would be great for someone interested in defending themselves in a life or death situation, but if you used this on any type of nonlethal threat you will go to jail. Even if you are in mortal danger, you could still have a civil law suit placed against you. A jury or judge is not going to know what to think when the now defendant has scars all over his face and neck and is missing an eye or ear. This won't apply in every state, but in TN and many others you just can't do that without getting into serious trouble yourself. Try learning how to throw. It works at the same range and has the same disorientating effect. It gives you a chance to run, and will not kill or maim anyone unless you want to. This brutal clawing has been around for thousands of years. It is instinctual, that is why people do it as a natural response. The deployment system looks very interesting though. It does use good technique, it is just that it is a little extreme.

[kengar]

From what I've read, the Shredder can be effectively applied in a nonleathal manner. Though it is designed to take out an attacker. Now, in just about every state you have every right to defend your life by any means possible and with the amount of force necessary to do so. Actually read your laws, I know you can defend yourself in TN. When I (most people on here) talk about having to use deadly force or even have to hurt another person we are not thinking about some punch-drunk-fest behind the bar. We are mostly talking about someone wanting to put serious bodily harm on us for no better reason than to be a scum bag. We are talking murder, rape, assault, not a drunkin cock measuring contest.



Ken

[kengar]

From all the descriptions I've seen, the Shredder sounds close to things I have some what done and an instructor has done to me during sparring/flowing. But I have a feeling this goes past my thoughts and will take it up several notches and put a whole new meaning to the phrase, "in your face". yeah, I've gouged, yanked, and a few other words, but this just might put a lot of things into perspective. I'm not looking for the Holy Grail, just something to make me flow more effectively in the mist of battle.



Ken

[Power]

Look, this stuff is just clawing and raking and gouging deployed through standing clinch/trap/grapple methods. This would be great for someone interested in defending themselves in a life or death situation, but if you used this on any type of nonlethal threat you will go to jail. Even if you are in mortal danger, you could still have a civil law suit placed against you.

Hi One sword,

The Shredder is not a set of moves or techniques but rather a spontaneous assault of gross motor tools that are applied on a quarter beat, the scenario will dictate the use of force and how the tools are applied. It can be as simple as open palm and fingertips up to how you have described some of the other tools such as clawing, raking and gouging. Training the shred against a resisting opponent...yet under control, is ground one for incorporating.

I like what Ryu wrote about the Shredder being psychologically based. It literally bypasses your attackers reflexive response; by the time he attempts a defense, you are already moving to a new target, and so on. This is easy to test on a basic level...have a conversation with someone and place your hand on their face and literally 'wash' their face all over with your hand. I guarantee you they will not stand there and remain motionless, they will flinch and in all probability turn away from you.

Take Care,

Chad Power

[El Mastero]

The Shredders pretty cool, he's that evil ninja dude from teenage mutant ninja turtles. Personally I like the RAT (Splinter) because he's all philosophical and can kick ass. But I guess the turtles are everyone's favorite.

[Power]

The Shredders pretty cool, he's that evil ninja dude from teenage mutant ninja turtles. Personally I like the RAT (Splinter) because he's all philosophical and can kick ass. But I guess the turtles are everyone's favorite

Now that's funny sh*t!

[El Mastero]

Now that's funny sh*t!

Thanks power. Sometimes we tend to get a bit defensive on comments that differ from our own MA training. Every now and again we should atleast embrace humor and not be too anal. Thanks for being cool.

[one sword]

It just seems immoral, call me old fashioned and confined... I need to hear it.

[Ryu (JKD?)]

Old fashioned morality is a good thing. Anyone who knows me knows I'm a stickler for ethics and morals.

The shred is a tool that can be used both in lethal and non-lethal situations. The morality that is put on it is up to the individual. If someone is immoral and uses it for immoral and unjustified reasons, the person is a criminal and will hopefully land in jail, be off the street, etc.

This kind of leads me into my point. You have to define your beliefs in a self-defense situation. You've got to understand not only the legal justifications and ramifications but also the moral as well.
There is a heck of a lot of evil people out in the world. If (God forbid) you are forced into a situation where you need to survive and escape (rather than win a scuffle) it's best to have these kinds of trained tools at your disposal.
Reality may call upon a different type of tactic in a different type of situation. If you need these particular tools, concepts in a particular situation....and don't have them, then the immoral person doing the victimizing will win.

That's my take on it. I appreciate your concern by the way because (contrary to popular belief) I feel morality plays a HUGE part in both the martial arts and self-defense.

Life too for that matter.

Take care,
Ryu

[Power]

Damn Ryu,

Like I could follow-up a post after that...excellent.

El Mastero,

Life is too short not to have a sense of humor.

[Ryu (JKD?)]

Hey, thanks, Power.

Ryu

[le W]

heya newbie on le forum

1)The shredder is a constantly evolving concept=idea,and even though Chad and Ryu gave as detailed an explanation /review of it as possible. One CANNOT realistically explain/demo le shredder in TEXT. Then ya get stuff like this:

"Look, this stuff is just clawing and raking and gouging deployed through standing clinch/trap/grapple methods. This would be great for someone interested in defending themselves in a life or death situation, but if you used this on any type of nonlethal threat you will go to jail"

le shredder is just one piece in le package that's RBSD. One can only begin to understand all that stuff about "bypassing le flinch response, It's a Close quarter tool ising pysch/phyiscal /verbal manipulations to set le baddy up where le shredder is functional(le trapping/clinching/grapping ranges) by seeing it or experiencing it. It's too freaky a constantly evolving idea to transmitt via synbols on a screen or still pics.

To get an understanding of le shredder ,how to train it w/out getting hurt,use it in def against multiple attackers:

1)one can buy le shredder tape and watch it. (Ya watch,decide if it's a tool you like and choose to add to your mental/physical toolbox or if ya don't like it ya lose it .)

2)Experience ,be shredded by in simulation by someone who's bought Rich's tape and viewed it been to his semmys.

3)And if your're around le Brooklyn ,NYC area ..Watch le tape w/ ME who has le shredder tape and is looking for a dude interested in protecting himself against 21 th century real world violence to train 1X or 2X a week. , cool: if ya live around Brooklyn ,NYC area or le city.
If interested pm/email me please. My physical atributes (footwork,reaction time )are horrible and once my knees heal up I'm joining le SBG in le city.

Depending how good your psychological/emotional tool box is. Pre contact stuff like :Verbal descalation,manipulation of behavior is a skill set just like your physical attributes and has to be practiced : the verbal descalating,or if failing that le ability to tactically set up le baddies for your physical retaliation (shredding if he's in close quarter range)/running to safety. Gotta practice one's psycho/emotional arsenal .Or you're just a PARTIALl artist.

Pardon me. I tend to ramble and go off in tangents

Oh yeah:
"but if you used this on any type of nonlethal threat you will go to jail"


le ferocity/pressure of shredding can be controlled according to le level of threat .
You don't want to skullfuc your drunk uncle at a party right ? Ya can windshield wipe his face to disorient him and then shove him into le closet .

Here's something that happened and ya can try it to gauge it's functionality dudes.Back in ,summer 2000,2001 . I forget. I answered an ad from a 180lb intermediate dude interested in MMA type grappling. He had mat space in his apt. 2 times I trained w/ him and spent most of le hour on le bottom and being twisted into le shape of a pretzel. BORING .(At that time I didn't yet understand that being proficient in le grappling range was essential to groundfighting.)

So 3rd training session. Every time le dude took me down,and then begin to do whatever,I would stick a hand in his face ,palm mashing his nose and doing a "waving hi !" motion ,or facewashing,. Now this is low level shredding ,and he kept telling me to stop doing that cuz it interrupted his gameplan. I was like "no,make me" cuz if I didn't keep facewashing him,(very little pressure,but it really disoriented/flustered /made him angry) . He would keep reshaping me into a pretzel.
20 minutes into le hour,we stopped ,he was really pissed off and I was asked to leave his apartment. Different goals etc. A tool that doesn't take 2 years to learn and one my mom can do if set up properly in le pre contact phase

Those of you dudes who practice stuff in le trapping/clinching,stand up/ground grappling can try this drill . Just try to mash your palm into your training partner's nose while he's FULLY RESISTING you and do a wiping motion . See how it rattles/and totally freaks your TP out .


ta le W

[Power]

SWEET F*CK!!!!

I actually understood every word that Warren was saying.