Dumog

[Stickgrappler]

i remember reading a post by one of his students in the PFS forum mentioning the "dumog clinch" - i believe they were referring to the "plum" aka MT clinch. please correct me if i am wrong.

[Chad W. Getz]

I've never heard the dumog clinch, but I know it can be worked in the MT clinch, Greco-Roman clinch, and the 'other' clinch, which is the one similar to a stick clinch-but without weapons. Of all these I would consider the latter one to be more of a housing of dumog techniques.

[Chad W. Getz]

Maybe better put...

Muay Thai clinches present the opportunity to work your dumog against the head and neck and shoulders. Usually because of the strong base of the MT feet, I won't go for much control on the arms/elbows. MT clinch works good for their particular rules-no wrestling. Yes, it can be used on the street, but if you notice with this type of training, the clinchers will tend to have control of the neck, but their feet will be further back, so they can work against the double leg takedown.

With the wrestling chest to chest or waist control structure, I see it as it works good for it's rules. No hit's to the face, so that isn't set up as a primary defense. The adaption for the street that we use is taken from the stickfighting clinch arm control structure. All structures are good and have their time and place.

What I like about the dumog is that it helps me to get from the MT clinch(plum) into the wrestling clinch, to a back or side control, back to the stickfighting clinch(for lack or better terminology). Dumog can also help to regain the range into striking position at an advantageous position or go to the ground with superior positioning already into play.

Working with a MT clinch into a Greco-Roman clinch using dumog techniques-no striking, is a nice drill to work your dumog and see how well you can apply your understanding of the techniques. Technique application. It's not a pretty drill and has no preset pattern. Play with the idea though. Your aim can be to keep the MT clinch, while your partner's goal might be to gain the GR clinch. Take turns trying it. Work it progressively at 50% and work the intensity till you guys are giving it 100% without strikes. Next put on a mask and some gloves and add punches only to the face with one hand, than both. Than add punches to the body. Than add some light knees, kicks, and sweeps. Than takedowns(double leg, single leg, silat, aikido, judo, etc., etc.).

Of course most of this is for you fighting against someone that trains or is a streetfighter. IF he doesn't train, or is just whatevers, hopefully you won't really have to work between structures as it should be over in a few seconds. IMO, this will train effective sensitivity for the streets today.

[Harley]

Hello Guys,
i would just like to say that the "bandak" tech, that Vu shows on his Dumog tapes is only a limited vu view of the overall system, to explore more of the system, ask the Man himself, Guro Inosanto. Vu knows alot more than he shows on that tape but he was just showing what fit into that stucture, Dumog as a system, includes grappling with a stick, knife, and flexible weapons, it includes takedowns and locks such as the classic "branch up" "branch down" and "twig" locks. it contains the kunsi (locking) and bali (breaking) and it is used extensively in the panantukan system to put the opponent in the position to make your hits the most effective. it is a grappling system but not a wrestling system. it is a great transition from kali/silat takedowns to BJJ. check it out.
harley

[gungfuhero]

Harley,

I've never thought about it before, but what is the difference between a grappling style and a restling style?

[Harley]

a grappling sytle will contain locks, chokes, etc. as will a wrestling system, but wrestling will contain more emphasis on position.
for example Pak Herman Suwanda's Mande Muda definately had grappling but little focus on position. his locks and chokes came on the move, the way he held you in place was the lock or choke as opposed to wrestling styles where you are held in position then locked or choked. it is also interesting to know that some very accomplished grapplers attempted for a whole week at a camp to find submissions with which to submit Pak Herman, and they found two things he couldn't escape, amazing. hope that helps.
harley

[gungfuhero]

Thanks Harley. That was very enlightening.

[Chad W. Getz]

What kind of groundfighting does IMA utilize? For example, do they utilize the "guard" locking feet behind opponents back, etc.?

[Harley]

hey chad,
are you referring to the Inosanto Academy?
if so, it's very diverse of course, but, Guro Dan has done grappling for years with people like "judo" Gene Labell,
and the catchascatchcan wrestling, also, Yuri Nakamura has taught Shooto there now for years, and of course Guro Dan grapples with the Machado family every morning, he is now a Black Belt under them, i think he trains with Rigan and Jean Jeaques. as well as all the others.
if that's not what you meant by IMA and i completely missed the mark, sorry. not the first time.
harley

[Chad W. Getz]

Hey Harley, I meant Indonesian, actually. I wish I lived up the street from Dan Inosanto's school, but planning a trip there soon.

[Harley]

hello chad,
sorry i missed the mark,
as far as i have seen they do not lock their ankles, but Pak Herman had a great open guard, he didn't call it that but very similar in position and tactic. so i would say that some things are familiar but others are verrry different. i think alot of this is influenced by flexible weapons (sarong) and edged weapons. since both are always availble.
harley

[Chad W. Getz]

Another good drill to train your dumog with is one that is actually named Dumog in the PI.

Two guys stand against each other and try to either push each other out of the circle, or what we do is draw lines about 20-30 feet away, and aim to push each other over the line. Either guy can push each other over either line. This will pay attention to the positioning and underlying principles of "dumog" control points. Real life skills transferable to maybe being able to push someone into a moving car if fighting on the road, or off a cliff, or over a big rock so he falls, etc., etc.

[HungryWolf21]

I finally found the article that mentioned the Dumog clinch! The article is a review of the Vunak Sierra Summit Workshop tapes. The review is on the South West Texas PFS site. By the way, has anybody seen these tapes or heard anything about them? Just curious.

[HungryWolf21]

During my training session on Saturday, I decided to try some Dumog techniques (arm pull, arm push, etc.) while working the pummel. Now my partner is not in the best shape in the world, but he still weighs about 220 lbs. to my 155 lbs. He is pretty strong and aggressive as well. Anyway, as we were pummeling, I placed my left foot against the outside of his right foot and then pulled on his right arm. It worked like a charm! He got completely off balance and began stumbling. And the cool part about it was that it felt as pulling and pushing around someone that would weigh 100 lbs.! On the downside, he is now aware of my tricks and it will probably be harder to pull it off on him in thye future.