Making JKD a classical mess by solidifying it.

[El Mastero]

I'm a non JKD student, I've read forum after forum of the state of JKD. I have questions and comments.

Would the situation of JKD be bettered if we get some, most or all of Bruce's original student's to pull their training together inorder to come out with a curriculum that makes JKD a solidified style?

It would solidify JKD into a system/style that may be called sacrilegious by many followers of Bruce but it would make JKD almost next to impossible for a mix marial artist or concept guy to claim to know/teach JKD without knowing/teaching the full curriculum of Jeet Kune Do.

I'm sure it is against "Bruce's" own doctrine of "finding your own way as way" but it will lessen those seminar masters who claim lineage because they worked out with Bruce's original student for X amount of days.

Some WC guys fault Bruce for only training Yip Man for X amount of years. It sounds weird, train with Yip Man for years but you are not qualified to teach yet train with Bruce any amount of time or his students and you are a qualified teacher. It sounds odd to me.

Regardless of this, I would prefer JKD to be solidified in an art one can learn and train in. An art that I can take to any of Bruce's student's and ask is this JKD? And they can recongnise it as what they learned from Lee.

Leaving the style as a "using no way as way and having no limitation as limitation" leaves the art as a lineage thing or a using Bruce's principles so it's JKD. It's an art that cannot be mastered because it depends highly on interpretation.

What do you think?

[Ryu (JKD?)]

I think JKD is getting silly.

Ryu

[ryanhall]

I think JKD is getting silly.

Yep. Too much time debating and not enough time training .

[bvermillion]

I wouldn't train in any school that claimed to teach JKD as there primary style. JKD is a philosophy. We train in that same philosophy in my tkd class. We reject moves that aren't practical or don't fit your specific body style. If we see a move from another style that is practical we learn that move and use it. We do reality based self defense training because it has been proven to work. We implement grappling into our system because we are aware that alot of fights go to the ground. We practice the mt style low round kick because it is a good kick. Now of course there are things we do that aren't neccesarily practical but thats any school. Bruce Lee never set out a list of what JKD is. JKD is exactly what it is. JKD wasn't the moves that Bruce used, because Bruce used what worked for bruce. Thats what JKD is all about using what is good and rejecting what is not. And what is good for some people is not for others.

[Drew Howe]

Bruce Lee developed JKD to be a style all its own. The core of JKD consists of western boxing, wing chun, and foot work from fencing. Reality, directness, and simplicity are stressed. Just prior to his tragic and untimely death, Bruce defined JKD as consisting of the above elements. He stressed reality so much to the point that he had discarded much of his earlier training methods. Such as wooden dummy training, chi sao, and wing chun forms. Bruce felt that those things were unnecessary to the whole.

Most of your pre-1973 JKD students agree with all of this. They also recognize the specific techniques that Bruce taught including the roughly 5 punches and 4 kicks that are part of the JKD curriculum. Of course no one knows all this better than Bruce's last private student and protege, Ted Wong.

I suspect that if you think JKD is just a "concept" or "philosophy," etc., you haven't had the opportunity to speak and train with many of the pre-73 students. In my own travels I have found that most all of the pre-73 people I have trained with or talked with all share very similar, if not the same, curriculum. However, I've found Ted Wong to be the most interesting.

[bvermillion]

You are correct nothing I stated was from first hand experience it was either read or taught to me.

[yenhoi]

Why?

If what your doing works, what do you care for the rest of us?

If what your doing doesnt work, what do you care for the rest of us?

[bvermillion]

Why?

If what your doing works, what do you care for the rest of us?

If what your doing doesnt work, what do you care for the rest of us?

Who is this posted to?

[yenhoi]

satan, the accuser, the guy who started this thread.

[El Mastero]

I would like to restate my point for clarity so I will try not to dip into the politics of OJKD vs JKDC too much.

Let's go with history. Bruce had three schools teaching Jun Fan Gung Fu aka modified Wing Chun with other additions. The bulk of the material revolved around certain principles that had to be adhered to aka JKD. After Bruce's death some of his original students went on their won way teaching their own brand of Jeet Kune Do or Jun Fan Gung Fu. They each had a certain amount of training under Lee directly or his instructors (James Lee, Taky Kimura & Daniel Inosanto). They each had a different approach to training and they got out of that training what suited them personally.

Now OJKD is not a solidified classical art per say because there are numerous original students of Lee's teaching their own brand of OJKD. What I was talking about was pulling their collective experiences together and expertise to formulate a system similar to classical ones that have advancements levels from beginner to advance and eventually instructors level where one is able to teach the entire curriculum untouched. There would have to be a governing body at the top that gives out certifications and testing for instructorship. Passing recquires demonstrating the accumulated knowledge of JKD in front of the governing counsel made up of these representatives/original students or their disciples.

Now one will learn the concepts or principles of JKD during their training. If one chooses to abandon the entire JKD curriculum and only use the concepts approach then one is entitled to do what one likes but they can no longer profess to teach JKD because they were not accreditaded JKD instructors and their curriculum does not hold water with the governing body. None of their students would be accredited under the governing body either.

That's a simple way to rid JKD's fraudulent instructors. Ofcourse, it's 30 years past from actually being feasable because in all this time countless JKD instructors have been certified by countless practitioners under the BL lineage and to throw that away will take away too many people's livelyhoods. $$$

[yenhoi]

The people who practice JKD now dont care and arent going to care anytime soon. The 'system' as it stands turns out capable exponents, so what is there to fix, actually?

Obviously the people involved dont want the sort of organization that you suggest. Why would they, tell us oh prophet from the classical ways.

[Drew Howe]

The people who practice JKD now dont care and arent going to care anytime soon. The 'system' as it stands turns out capable exponents, so what is there to fix, actually?

Obviously the people involved dont want the sort of organization that you suggest. Why would they, tell us oh prophet from the classical ways.

That is true. The JKD Nucleus was the latest attempt at uniting everyone under one rough. The problem is it still excluded legitimate JKD instructors over differences of opinion. It was a clique, and if you didn't agree with the clique or pay proper homage, you were not part of it. Sure, anyone could be a "general member" but it was the instructor recognition that was the thing to have.

As for certification, if you are or were a senior ranked student under any recognized instructor with lineage back to Bruce Lee, I think that you are qualified to teach what you learned. This is the best way to weed out the frauds. It is also the current method. Even if you had one single board for certifying instructors, you would still have a bunch of frauds...that wouldn't solve that problem.